Lei-Fei and Vanessa on LIVE

I don't think you know what the problem is.

The real problem is not exactly her 66K but her 3K. Vane's 66K is quite good in its own merit and the same technique can be applied but its not as effective as spamming 3K and spacing backwards.

And in all honestly the real big issue is her walking speed. Vanessa is insanely fast in moving forward and backward. She walks twice as fast than the 2 slowest characters. Kage walks the fastest going backwards but I wouldn't be surprised if Vanessa was second or third fastest retreating.

Combine her walking speed with her fast moves and little recovery and she can be irritating. Checkout the technique used by this Vanessa player for an example. (I might be opening Pandora's box by showing this./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif )

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As you can see, it is a very strong tactic but it is beatable (if you can anticipate the move beforehand /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ).


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Her DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif pushes back too. Nobody complains about that cause it's a standard sidekick. People sabaki it, reverse it, block it.</div></div>
True. The last K has slow startup and can be evaded, reversed, sabakied etc. on reaction with practice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lion's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif also has pushback but people don't complain either. You know why? Because they can duck it and punish afterwards.</div></div>
Lion's 6K+G is mid, you cannot duck it. Its not too abusable because of its slower startup (25f) and slower recovery (12f).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aoi ... thanks me every time i do vanessa's shadow slicer</div></div>
That's all well and good for Aoi. But how do the other 16 characters in the game cope. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

 

For some reason I really liked watching that match. That Sarah player quickly figured him out.

 

Yeah, that was nice work in that vid.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And in all honestly the real big issue is her walking speed. Vanessa is insanely fast in moving forward and backward. She walks twice as fast than the 2 slowest characters. Kage walks the fastest going backwards but I wouldn't be surprised if Vanessa was second or third fastest retreating.</div></div>Her walking speed backwards is equal with Sarah, Kage, Jacky and Eileen. Characters who all have midkicks too.

 

Now, maybe I'm just being a complete VF noob here (well, I mean, I am a complete VF noob here) but aren't those two kicks linear? Meaning you could sidestep and then offensive move to help close the distance? Or would that make the kick track and hit you? Or can she just back up faster then you can sidestep-OM in.

And if she keeps backing up the whole match, won't she be up against the wall right quick?

 

Fact: majority of Vanesa's in Japan play like taht. This is according to yosuke, itazan, and people who have been Japan. Why? because it's very good and takes a lot of patience to play against. It also doesn't take that much effort from the Vanessa player to play this way.

Yosuke and Itazan showed us why this was too good. It is beatable just the effort for someone to win against this is more than the effort than the Vanessa player exerts. If you don't play like this I have greater respect for you (general "you") as a VF player.

 

yeah all it requires is for a semi decent vannessa to then mix it up and well...
the walking speed is the main issue,
if they change that in a new ver then people can't complain about frames being changed, moves taken out etc,
just give everyone the same walk speed amd let's see some stepping!

 

Her walking speed backwards is equal with Sarah, Kage, Jacky and Eileen. Characters who all have midkicks too. </div></div>

I don't think so, pretty sure Shag is correct.

 

I tested this long ago.

Anyway, I agree that backwards walking speed should be slower...rather, I think it shouldn't be much of a gameplay element at all.

 

As far as I know it's punishable no matter the distance so long as you hold forward and do P or PK imediately.

 

WTF is all this I'm reading about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif?

This isn't common knowledge?

There is no "Pandora's" box because it is a very beatable tactic, and it sure as hell doesn't work anymore for me.

Quit bitching.

 

I'm with ya on this one. [sorry, no time to read the thread in entirety] I play Kwon Ho Online (ijji.com) and I've seen people whine about the 'noob' terms "spam" and "cheap moves".

My friend who happens to be one of the country's best Ranked Slayers in the fighting Game Guilty Gear XX Accent Core also believes in this 'play to win' strategy.

What I've found to accelerate a fight's outcome is to put up the 'barriers' as mentioned in the article "Play to Win". [Google it, you can't miss it]

Spam one move till your foe can beat it. Then spam another move till your foe can beat it. [note these moves aren't random, they have strategic advantages to help you weed out the dumb@sses]

For Vanessa's case, her full reaching mid K and toward-toward K. I didn't get my Live working yet since I didn't renew my subscription but I can see those moves being 'spammed'.

Those who play to win won't complain unless a game TRUELY has a broken mechanic that's easy to exploit by anybody. Neither Lei-Fei nor Vanessa have any 'perfect' moves that are impossible to stop/dodge/reversal.

My fav characters are Akira, Aoi, and just now, OS Vanessa. [DS Vanessa is my 'noob' filter, but OS is for when I'm ready to rock the house]

Since my characters are very defensive oriented, I kinda play them with a Counter idea similar to DoA, but much more fun to watch and less spammy. [u can't spam counters in this game or DoA but this game has a much LARGER risk to it vs. DoA.]

Please don't worry too much about 'bringing yourself down' to 'their level'. You should just DESTROY the braindead ones with whatever means necessary, spam or not...

You don't have time to grow as a character if all you can do is complain about spammy spammer mashers when you can instead, beat them at their own game [only faster] and move on to REAL players...

Long live the Play to Win motto!

 

sebo... I dont know if your post was directed to me or not, but if it was I didnt like the tone of it. I never bitches about anything and how you guys keep missing this when I keep saying it over and over. I could give a dam if someone wants to middle kick all day. Chances are they will only get better at just middle kicking and nothing else. All I did was make a statement that I thought vanessa is over powered. I have no problems dealing with it. I have actually done perfectly fine breaking through it. Its the simplicty of the tactic that im talking about when combine with her walking speed. People can say all they want about oh its linear dodge the kick, pppffft easiest said than done.... Oh wait why dont you OM towards after you defend it.... Hello she is long gone and can most likely throw P or low P to stop your advance. Anyways like I said, you guys can be in denial if you want. This is absolutely my last post about this. To anyone I have annoyed please accept my deepest apologies and if our connection is good I hope to get some games in with you guys.

 

It was directed at you?

I don't even play her anymore (she isn't fun, like everyone else), and I'm not in denial in the fact she is "overpowered," but almost everyone has game breaking shit, thanks to all the new hit-boxes which were more uniform in VF4 (Thank you Blaze/Eileen for being so small they had to make everyone else so big).

---
I might even just quit the game all together at this point.

 

someone needs to take a chill pill...

 

some people need to make a game with consistent rules...

 

some people need to stop being such a bitter jerk in every topic they post in.

 

The rules are consistant. There's just more of them to know now. God forbid lol.

 

If Vanessa is so overpowered, why has she never won a tournament at high levels in Japan? I think all this talk about being overpowered is only taking place at lower levels (ie, here in America). I at least haven't seen her win any VF tournament. Not even make it to semis or quarters actually.