Lei-Fei and Vanessa on LIVE

You're the one who brought it off-topic by saying that DoA was POS, and you still haven't explained why you think it is so.
You're just trying to get away with saying that it's just your opinion, that's an excuse for people that can't back up what they say with facts. Of course I realize that people are going to have different opinions about certain matters than me, but I also expect them to be able to explain why they have that opinion.
This isn't kindergarten, just because you say something is a certain way doesn't make it an undisputable fact.

I merely used DoA as an example of what can happen when people get the wrong idea, though the mindset of the overall DoA community is pretty much set in stone now that offline is the only thing that counts, and alot more people are showing up to the major tournements. I did this because now with online in the VF community the same problem could arise, and therefor I think it would be the best to smack this kind of thinking down before it becomes any kind of a problem.

 

Ah, I see the issue here. You're taking me DoA is a POS is the reason why the tournament scene died more seriously then it was intended. To be frank, I know crap all about the DoA tournament scene, let alone why it may have died or not.

When I say DOA is a POS, I say it in the same way that I say Burger King is a POS. As in, it doesn't taste good to me. I'm not saying it lacks depth, or has a flawed combat system. Just that I think it sucks. Eating more burgers, or playing more DoA, wont change my opinion of it. I just don't like it. I think you interpreted my personal dislike as more of an attack on the games mechanics. But, it's easy to misinterpret things on the internet, so, no harm, no foul.

I don't think we have to worry too much about the offline VF5 scene dying. Most people seem very aware of the issues that the online lag causes, and are still aware that offline is superior.

 

So lemme get this straight, for Vanessa's ground assault, is it P to counter or G. In her CMD List she uses P while your on the floor.

 

No offense but your advice is idiotic. Vf has never been a game about picking counter characters just to deal with some bullshit. And if you knew even the slightest about what you were talking about you would know that her 66k is totally safe so no whiffing and counter attacking their bud. As for her 3k she can just walk back which is what we are discussing. Even if she does walk back her 3p will beat pretty much anything you throw next except low punch. Again i dont really give a dam about the tactics im talking how easily its abusable even by non competent players. I never said anything is cheap i just said its over powered and im amazed at how many people are in denial about it. Even yosuke himself who can own all of us says its bs... Not cheap just abusable bs and from the info i gathered he only picked her in socal just to show everyone what playing vf has come down to even in the land of the rising sun. Any ways this is dragging out and I'm not and argumentive type of person. You guys believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

 

this is easily fixed by sega if they are bothered,
just reduce vannessa's walk back speed, hell while we're on the subject reduce Everyone's walk back speed!
Why has jacky got a faster walking speed? with 6 p setups lool
that's my main issue coming from 4 to 5, the spacing game is alot easier (amongst other things) it used to take slightly more skill in previous vf's.

 

Don't forget Itazan

 

(general response)

I'm a solid player with top experience vs Akira, Jacky, Lau, Wolf, Kage, Goh, and Jeff, but I'm suspect to Shun, Pai, Lion, Vanessa, Lei Fei, Eileen, Aoi, Brad, Eileen, Sarah... see the problem? You can't make up experience. You need to read the command lists, watch vids, go into dojo mode and after you're done with that get out there and catch what's coming to you. Rodney is much like myself in a lot of ways.

We take this game seriously (as games go, don't get the wrong idea) and our pride is on the line when we say to ourselves "I'm better than this" and go to lengths possible to understand why we lost a match. I haven't been playing VF5 until now and all I have to say is that I consider myself a "noob" to its system. Oh sure I've played shit tons of previous VF so that my core knowledge is still strong, but the fact remains that I haven't even touched the surface yet with VF5. I'm a noob. I'm a VF5 noob trying to deal with new things like "wtf, did shun just do" or "jesus, i can't counter that with p?" or how about "please, please, how do i beat that move?"

I have a lot of friends here on VFDC. They know I mean business when I sit down next to them for match. I would never say to a person "you beat me because you used 'X'"

"GG" and I go and reflect on my loss. That's it. I can complain all I want, but I still fucking lost. Nothing I or anyone else can do about it except learn VF5.

Let go of your ego that you feel you're above someone because they use an unfamiliar character. Stop playing the pocket full of characters you feel "good" against. Seek out the new guys who like Brad because he's "cool" or that vet from UK who has that pretty mean Aoi - oh hey about about this guy that understands Kage like it's nobody's business?

News Flash: You're not as good as you think.

Ouch, oh how the truth hurts.

Thanks for reading.

 

If you claim unexperienced players can button mash their way to winning against an experience player with knowledge of game mechanics, this can only mean that the player is not as good as he/she thinks, simple as that. As others have said, don't blame the other players or characters if you lose, the fault is all yours.

 

last proper vf gathering i attended was a cramped room full of geeky hermits sat in front of tv's all day with the blinds drawn. not quite the social even of the year but it was a blast.

but let's not get all high-and-mighty and start knocking people who elect to be play online, either through choice of because they have little local competition.

online play is good for the vf community.

 

Sheeit, we had 17 players at last night's gathering, and I think hype which came from Ver. C and online could be partialy to thank for it. Nothing beats playing in person, granted. But when I'm home and no one is planning on playing, I can't find a reason to not play online (given how well it actually turned out).

Even though I absolutely loathe Third Strike online, and don't care for Tekken online at all either, I can't help but admit both have brought even more players to the scene. And through that, has brought more players to tournaments as well. VF online will no doubt do the same, if not even more so.

 

Konjou, vanessa is not on positive frames after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. She's in -9. Playing online other vanessas tried to use that on me. I repoonded with my own long ranged moves, DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Each time i CH. Third round they stop doing that.

Find your own long ranged move and punish her after her shadow slicer. Which, in fact, has been toned down since VF4evo. Yes, more unsafe, less damage. And people still whine. Like, wtf? I don't even consider it her top move anymore, it's been around FOREVER experienced player should have found a way to face it by now. And it got nerfed i remind you. You play akira i supose? do super dashing elbow, it should connect. Or find some other long ranged shit. Or backdash and let it whiff. Or counterhit her, it's 21 frames to come of ffs.

As for her intruder step, you should CH her out of it, like Jeneric said. The animation is LONG, if you can't see it, tough, i bet you don't duck when she does /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif either. But given that you've been in the forums longer than i do i bet you can do both on reflex.

VF3beatsVF4, i still don't realise what move he has problems dealing with so i won't bother replying for a third time. I just want to back up zerochan to say that i play vanessa because i like her style. I played vanessa in Evo when she had the slowest punch in the whole game, frickin elbow class at 14 frames, i certainly won't stop playing her, no matter your or other people's whining. Specially not now that for once she got better.

So people, versions change, move's attributes change, get on with the program. Tune in to acebreaker's youtube channel, see what other players do against his vanessa (he plays lei fei too btw, what a coincidence) and LEARN. You don't see me complaining in the forums about pai, do you? You should hear me though, i hate her with passion. But i tuned in to mainono's and siropai's youtube channels and learned.

To conclude, could we rename this thread to "dealing with online vanessa" and move it to the vanessa subforum?

 

The problem with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is that it pushes you when you guard it. Even though it's -9 you can't apply nitaku against you're opponent. In most situations you're too far to attempt a throw. So Vanessa's usually just block without fear of being thrown, hence the +9 that you have goes to waste.

This was a similar situation with Kage's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif from Shippuujin on Version B. Even though it leaves Kage in -8, the opponent can't apply a two-choice game of a mid and throw against him. They changed this in Version C, it doesn't push anymore.

 

I'd just like to agree here, because this is definitely true in my case. I would never claim to be that good to start with, but it's always a learning process.

As an example, When you train and train in Dojo mode with a standing dummy, or when you blast through command time attack, or when you get 100% completion on Quest in "Normal" while it may give you a sense of superiority I find that in the heat of a battle against a good opponant most of that goes out the window in blind panic, especially for me because I'm not that calm or deliberate yet with my character.

When I loaded up Arcade and on the final stage Akira gave me a good kicking, blocking most attacks, and staggering me around all the place it was a shock.

I'm sure vets with better skill can eat him (the CPU) for breakfast, but it was just a timely reminder that sometimes the game makes me feel like I've learnt a lot and accomplished so much and then I get out there and it's a rude awakening to just how little I know in my counter and defence game, and just how much more there is too practise and learn.

 

No, that's not the problem.

Her DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif pushes back too. Nobody complains about that cause it's a standard sidekick. People sabaki it, reverse it, block it. Lion's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif also has pushback but people don't complain either. You know why? Because they can duck it and punish afterwwards.

Now Vanessa's DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is mid and full circular and that just pisses people off. All of a sudden they don't have any definitive advantage after her attack. "Omg Vanessa is teh broken!" "all aboard the vanessa badnwagon!!" etc.

Well nobody said you should have nitaku after EVERY move your opponent does. Especially after a 21 frame move. Should we start bitching about every other slow move that leaves the player in a neutral situation when blocked? No, because if we should, you forgot about her OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. And akira's double handed slam thingy. Sarah's flamingo. Jacky's strings that end with him stepping back. "Omg jacky is teh broken i can't touch him!" and loads of other slow moves that don't offer guaranteed nitaku.

So the excuse about the move having pushback, is just that, an excuse. People are just pissed that it's mid and semicircular and they can't do anything about it but block it with the characters they are playing.

Let me tell you though, my neighbour here in France plays Aoi and he thanks me every time i do vanessa's shadow slicer (btw kingo we should meet one of these days). 21 frames gives him plenty of time to input /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and inashi me to oblivion afterwards. That's it. She can reverse it - and will. Aoi should have SOME advantage over other characters. Brad too.

In conclusion, DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has been there since VF4, it's even been in Virtua soul as her trademark move (along with army combination) and it's not going anywhere.

Get over it.

EDIT: once again, how about moving the thread? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sleep.gif

 

when 66K whiffs your in big trouble.

 

I take it you play venessa. Then you should know 66k is safe on block. The only time its not safe is if you back is against the wall. Abyways like i said im fine dealing with it. Again im stating a obvious fact or let me say it like this... Its just my opinion that i think she is over powered. You have itazan who is as strong as they come and im sure has no problem getting around it like myself, but even he says its bs. All of you who dont think other wise is in denial cause your just trying to capitalize on it.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Her DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif pushes back too. Nobody complains about that cause it's a standard sidekick. People sabaki it, reverse it, block it. Lion's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif also has pushback but people don't complain either. You know why? Because they can duck it and punish afterwwards.</div></div>

You can't duck Lion's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif it's a mid, and you can't evade it either because it's full-circular. The reason people don't complain, is that it's punishable.

Nobody complains about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif because you can just sidestep it and you can counter after that.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is full-circular and there's no guaranteed counter afterwards.

 

I heard vanessa 66K's babies and eats them for breakfast

 

I've always though 66K was too good and should be punishable with throw. Too bad Sega took away the pure throw counterable situation in VF5. I still am surprised every time a revision is out that it isn't jab counterable.

The person I play with the most on the other hand actually thinks 66K should be safe (even though he's the one that suffers for it) since he thinks Vanessa has weaknesses that validate having a move like 66K.

Defensive Stance Vanessa has a lot of disadvantages offensively, she has shit for punishment until +16. Not even a lousy PK as solid punishment. She has no typical 14 frame elbow that staggers. She has a lot of other moves that sort of (as a whole) is designed to fill that void but not quite. She doesn't have that good damage from her main nitaku attacks. Fact is, it's quite pitiful. 55 damage at the most. With the exception of 3K and 66K her range is actually quite bad.

Of course 66K is good. Of course it's BS. A lot of characters have BS moves, this happens to be one of hers. BTW, if she executes it from open stance she's within throw range in her recovery.

Actually, it's only punishable if Lion executes it from very close range.

 

It doesn't have to be very close. That's what i thought too, but then Itazan was able to consistently punish me. Then again, that's Itazan =P