Kanazawa CHINJUUZUKAN

I didn't want to reply again, so I decided to discuss this in vfhome with Srider. But I think we're finally on the same page now and he kind of encouraged me to post this anyway. For the benefit of those who weren't there, this is what I basically had to say, but after this post the thread gets locked.

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This idea of Kage not being able to beat EDTEG is pretty BS

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I already agreed with this, and so did others in vfhome at the time, so I don't think there was any reason to bring that up. What we were discussing was Kage's and Wolf's options against someone who EDTEG and took away the two best throws. My conclusion was that Wolf comes out on top damage wise (and RO wise with the two catch throws.)

EDTEG was chosen as the measuring stick since we agreed it was the most common form of defense against throws, and that's all that was considered. We didn't consider other methods of defeating EDTEG, such as delayed launchers and half/full circulars. So again, nobody ever claimed that Kage couldn't defeat EDTEG. That's ridiculuous.

Srider then proposed the example of having 25pts left and having your elbow guarded. Since Kage has more guaranteed damage throw directions than Wolf, then you can say Kage is going to have a higher success rate. So yes Kage is more threatening in this case.

But then I proposed another example: you have 65pts health left, Wolf has his back to a wall, and you just had your elbow guarded. This is where the damage factor comes in since he can now KO you with 4 throw directions. Kage can only KO you with 1 throw direction. Now Wolf is now magnitudes more threatening.

The point I tried to make is that you can think of any number of scenarios and every character will fare differently. Discussing how a particular character can handle a certain situation is very beneficial, but comparing that to another character in the same situation, in the end, doesn't help anyone. Which brings me back to why I didn't want to post all these comparisons. I think Srider felt that a throwing-type character should always have the upper hand in the throw department, but I think the complexity of VF prevents those kind of stereotyping of character classes. Throwing is integral to everyone's game in VF, and some characters throws can be very threatening under the right circumstance.

Final points:

- Thanks for the master guide link, Srider. It does mention Kage's elbow and Akira's ShRm. But as I mentioned, I don't think this suddenly makes Kage's elbow super powerful (an impression I got from another poster, not you). So what if Akira can't ShRm under it, he now has a pretty rewarding Sabaki instead! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

- We'll have to agree to disagree about the HCB command change for TFT, and the effect it has during non-buffered and surprised situations.

- To Summah: I talked to you already, but for anyone else wondering, I wasn't having a go at you, nor was I singling out phoenix. Replying directly to a comment someone makes is not singling out. Anyway, the comment he quoted (regardless of it's source or integrity) is what I found funny if he did actually believe it to be true.

- To PhoenixDth: My heart goes out to you, and every other Lei player. You know, learning VF with Lei fei is certainly hard (I can only begin to imagine!), so it's no wonder why, when you start to play more 'traditional' characters you'd think they're "cheap" /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif Hell, I think everyone is "cheap" compared to Lei!