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Kage: Final Tuned

Discussion in 'Kage' started by Myke, Aug 13, 2004.

Page 3 of 5
  1. Neonomide

    Neonomide Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Neonomide
    If FT comes to PS2, this move seems like it screams for PSone pads. If one stills plays with pads (ilke I do)...
     
    Neonomide, Sep 30, 2004
    #41
  2. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Heh! I've been playing wolf lately and GE has handed me my ass so many times with Kage now that I have decide that I must pick him up. Kage seems so deadly.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    bah. Get your own damn character!

    GE
     
    GodEater, Sep 30, 2004
    #42
  3. Shang

    Shang Well-Known Member

    Myke,
    I'm going to address the issues your bought up in a civil fashion. Yes the combo in question is difficult to do. But you have to look at as it's difficult but not impossible. by difficult I mean look ahead 1 year from now, people will be able to pull it off consistently. I have firm believe in this, and you should too (if you don't download some of those DDR/music game clips). by impossible I mean wolf's knee is -1 on hit no matter how skillful you are.. it's -1 if it hit. and you are screwed, it doesn't matter how skillful you are or how good your yomi is.. kage will always rock and wolf will always suck.
    Also myke you are comparing a move with two moves that's already imbalanced in EVO. Didn't those uppercut moves get toned downed in FT? How bad can this get before people realize Kage is all reward and no risk? 73 + counter hit of the first hit = a lot closer to 100 than you think mikey.
    The evidence is clear, and kbcat is seeing the light. People wants to win they pick Kage... Look at the people who converted to Kage: Ryan Hart, Imf, Myke, Ass-9, DandyJ, even SiYkO. Please snap out of this childhood fantasy of yours that VF is all about balance and yomi.. It's all about picking kage!!!
     
    Shang, Sep 30, 2004
    #43
  4. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    GodEater said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    Heh! I've been playing wolf lately and GE has handed me my ass so many times with Kage now that I have decide that I must pick him up. Kage seems so deadly.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    bah. Get your own damn character!

    GE

    [/ QUOTE ]

    He's mine now!!!!! First I take your Wolf, now your Kage!!!!!! soon you will have nothing! nothing I say!
     
    kbcat, Sep 30, 2004
    #44
  5. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Myke said:

    No kidding! Anyway I was just doing some reading now and found that 1/60sec has the frame input info for the 623P+KPPK.

    It shows that the input window for the [P][K][K] is 4 frames, 3 frames and 2 frames respectively. The interesting thing is if you input the [P] on the last (4th) frame, then the inputs for the remaining series are pushed out by one frame, but the windows remain the same. Just when I thought it couldn't get more complicated...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As you said very similar to Lion's Catch-PPP which has the same weird "if you input a P one frame late, all the subsequent P timings are pushed out 1 frame". But, as you noted the window to input each P stays a consistent size. But, I figure if I can manage Lion's catch-PPP on a regular basis people will be able to do kage's consistently as well -- although it's unlikely anyone would have 100% accuracy.


    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Sep 30, 2004
    #45
  6. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Re: Kage: Final Tuned *DELETED*

    Post deleted by kbcat
     
    kbcat, Sep 30, 2004
    #46
  7. Shang

    Shang Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Myke said:
    Just when I thought it couldn't get more complicated


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Rejoice!! Finally one thing Kage has that requires skill, and look all the crying. OMG.. please make it easier cuz you'd actually have to time it to get it off.
     
    Shang, Sep 30, 2004
    #47
  8. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    People wants to win they pick Kage... Look at the people who converted to Kage: Ryan Hart, Imf, Myke, Ass-9, DandyJ, even SiYkO. Please snap out of this childhood fantasy of yours that VF is all about balance and yomi.. It's all about picking kage!!!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I haven't been reading the forums for a while, so I'm just hoping this is some kind of long running joke shang's got going.

    Can someone please confirm.
     
    imf, Sep 30, 2004
    #48
  9. Siyko

    Siyko Well-Known Member

    confirmed
     
    Siyko, Sep 30, 2004
    #49
  10. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Shang being civil? Hath hell frozen over?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Shang said:

    Myke,
    I'm going to address the issues your bought up in a civil fashion. Yes the combo in question is difficult to do. But you have to look at as it's difficult but not impossible. by difficult I mean look ahead 1 year from now, people will be able to pull it off consistently. I have firm believe in this, and you should too (if you don't download some of those DDR/music game clips).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thanks for agreeing with me. All I said was that it is difficult. I never said it was impossible.

    [ QUOTE ]
    by impossible I mean wolf's knee is -1 on hit no matter how skillful you are.. it's -1 if it hit. and you are screwed, it doesn't matter how skillful you are or how good your yomi is.. kage will always rock and wolf will always suck.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The only thing impossible about Wolf's knee being -1 is your thinking. Generally speaking, at -1 for Wolf, the opponent has to [2][P] in order to beat your [2][P], which is ideal to condition them for a low punch cut setup. But of course, you're a Wolf expert and a -1 situation is just "impossible" for Wolf and he'll always suck, right? Then again, you can always take the old jumping knee for a float....

    [ QUOTE ]
    Also myke you are comparing a move with two moves that's already imbalanced in EVO. Didn't those uppercut moves get toned downed in FT? How bad can this get before people realize Kage is all reward and no risk? 73 + counter hit of the first hit = a lot closer to 100 than you think mikey.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Look, you can compare it with whatever you want. All I stated was that for the risk (-22 on guard!) you get a good reward. I don't see what the big deal is anyway. Kage's uppercut counter tools were toned down as you said, and in their place he gets a DP combo (higher risk, higher reward). Shang, it appears as that you only looked at the reward and ignored the risk when you judged this move.

    The thing a lot of people don't understand about Kage is that he has no fast counter tools to lead into combos. Up to -14 all he can really use is [P][P][4][P] in a guaranteed situation for a +1. The fastest he has going is at 15 frames. What this means is that at +2 he doens't have anything potent enough to play nitaku guessing games with.

    But I can deal with that. If I couldn't, I wouldn't play Kage.

    [ QUOTE ]
    The evidence is clear, and kbcat is seeing the light. People wants to win they pick Kage... Look at the people who converted to Kage: Ryan Hart, Imf, Myke, Ass-9, DandyJ, even SiYkO. Please snap out of this childhood fantasy of yours that VF is all about balance and yomi.. It's all about picking kage!!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    AFAIK, Ryan, ice-9 and myself have always been Kage players, but I think the biggest draw with Kage is the fun and flash factor and not some BS that Kage = automatic win.
     
    Myke, Sep 30, 2004
    #50
  11. Shang

    Shang Well-Known Member

    myke you have been blinded by your own infatuations!! please open your eyes and come to the realization Kage is the most powerful force in the universe! /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif
     
    Shang, Sep 30, 2004
    #51
  12. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Myke said:
    AFAIK, Ryan, ice-9 and myself have always been Kage players, but I think the biggest draw with Kage is the fun and flash factor and not some BS that Kage = automatic win.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree with that -- GE beats me senseless with crazy amounts of style. That is one of the things that appeals to me about kage, he can be played with lots of style, just like Lion, Pai, and Wolf can.


    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Sep 30, 2004
    #52
  13. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    he can be played with lots of style, just like Lion, Pai, and Wolf can.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Yeah, if [P],[2][P] is stylish to you.....

    j/k /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
    Pai_Garu, Oct 1, 2004
    #53
  14. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Srider said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    he can be played with lots of style, just like Lion, Pai, and Wolf can.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Yeah, if [P],[2][P] is stylish to you.....

    j/k /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    GE's wolf is pretty stylish, good yomi, good movement and distancing. He may be slow but he's not ineffective. Wolf can have so much more style than a charater like Lau, which has in my opinion little to none.

    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Oct 1, 2004
    #54
  15. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    I guess the joke wasn't taken correctly....

    /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
    Pai_Garu, Oct 1, 2004
    #55
  16. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Srider said:

    I guess the joke wasn't taken correctly....

    /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I understand the joke -- but Wolf is touchy subject around here and we can't afford to disturb the Shang, now that he's being civil /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
    kbcat, Oct 1, 2004
    #56
  17. Jide

    Jide Joe Musashi Silver Supporter

    PSN:
    Blatant
    [ QUOTE ]
    Myke said:

    AFAIK, Ryan, ice-9 and myself have always been Kage players, but I think the biggest draw with Kage is the fun and flash factor and not some BS that Kage = automatic win.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Nope its those two magical words that every Kage player can relate too

    RING OUT!
     
    Jide, Oct 1, 2004
    #57
  18. kungfusmurf

    kungfusmurf Well-Known Member

    Kage is a WhiteBoy trying to be a ninja what do you expect of course it's easy to win w/ him.. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
    kungfusmurf, Oct 1, 2004
    #58
  19. supergolden

    supergolden Well-Known Member Content Mgr El Blaze

    Ok, so when P+K hits and crumples the opponent, what in the world are you supposed to follow that up with? A Jumanji sweep otb hit?

    -Alex
     
    supergolden, Oct 4, 2004
    #59
  20. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    supergolden said:

    Ok, so when P+K hits and crumples the opponent, what in the world are you supposed to follow that up with? A Jumanji sweep otb hit?

    -Alex

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Will JM PK (Hold K) - Dragon Punch work? Just a thought, haven't tried it yet.


    kbcat
     
    kbcat, Oct 4, 2004
    #60
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