Justice for Trayvon Martin

Really now? This case in the first place is an hyperbolic depiction, case in point, observe:



Feel silly now, Libertine?

 

Not exactly.

Zimmerman was retarded and so were those who refused to place him into custody. My point is that the abuse of a law doesn't make a law bad per se.

However...

I had assumed until now that the Stand Your Ground law was a type of self-defense law authorizing the use of lethal force. I need to look more into it now that I'm of the understanding that it's more than that.

 

Sometimes they get Nobel Peace Prizes!

 

Libertine, your missing the entire point! Without an arrest , the Court can't determine anything. According to the Florida police Zimmerman didn't break any law (his actions were covered by)

Florida Stand Your Ground Law

Therefore no reason to arrest him.

This is a stupid law. The ppl who want it, and support it are typically racists.

The problem is:

In the same way that it allows them to get away with murdering minorities. It will allow minorities to get away with murdering them.

We'll see what the support is for the law, when the shooter is some 28 year old black male, and the dead boy on the ground is a 17 year old white male.

If the racists want to turn this into the wild wild west, they better be careful what they ask for. Because minorities have access to guns too.

And according to the racists, Minorities are usually more naturally physically gifted and more athletic. Which means that in general a minority will be able to draw faster.

Its a dumb fuckin law and has no place in a civilized society.

AFAIC you could take all these racist gun tot'n wakos and give them their own island somewhere.
Where they don't have to have a government, and they don't have to pay taxes, and they don't have to have any entitlement programs,and they don't have to perform abortions or take contraceptives, and they spend all day blowin each other's brains out, and then claim the blood of jesus for forgiveness, as they pursue the capitalistic spirit by drilling for oil and manufacturing bullets.

 

You guys are jumping the gun here. I don't know exactly what happened and neither do you guys. There is more evidence and the 911 call goes on longer than what has been released.

Are the Sanford cops shady? Most definitely.

BUT - did you know that Zimmerman was found at the scene with a broken nose and lacerations to the back of his head? Did you know that Trayvon is 6'3"?

ALSO - there's another witness, a 13 year-old kid, who claims a man fitting Zimmerman's description was lying on the ground screaming for help just before the gun shot was heard. That alone calls into question who was actually yelling for help. An eye-witness says it was Zimmerman crying for help.

Zimmerman claims that he shot Trayvon because he was going for his gun. He claims Trayvon knocked him over with a punch to the nose and then started smashing his head into the ground (seems like it could be true from Zimmerman's injuries) and when Trayvon allegedly went for the gun, Zimmerman shot him.

I don't know what's true and what's false - neither do either of you. The full story hasn't been released yet to ANYONE. But an eye-witness who claims it was Zimmerman on the ground, screaming for help, blows a big hole in what you guys are trying to say.

It's called due process. Zimmerman can't be convicted outside of court because many feel he is guilty. That HAS TO BE decided by a jury who has heard all of the facts. However, the situation is unclear, and there's no need to lynch Zimmerman just yet. I thought he was 100% guilty myself, but this new info seems to say otherwise.

I think it is very important that the investigation continues, I do believe that Zimmerman should be arrested until he posts bail or gets his day in court. Due process is extremely important to all of the citizens of this country, it prevents all of us from being thrown in jail for no reason; white, black, hispanic or asian people all deserve a trial by jury -- even if the public feels they are guilty.

I have no idea what happened that night, and it's becoming less and less clear as new information comes out nowhere every few days. All I'm saying is we should let the legal system work, and if it fails (the Casey Anthony trial for example -- she was as guilty as sin and got away with killing her daughter) it's tough to swallow. But that's just the way our justice syhstem works.

I also heard there is very intense pressure for the police to arrest Zimmerman. It's coming from local, state and federal officials. I believe Zimmerman will be arrested eventually, but I'm not sure there's enough solid evidence to convict him of murder; it's going to be a very tough case to argue on both sides...

 

To me the 911 call was extremely telling; it proves that Zimmerman was definitely being the "stalker" in this situation. Zimmerman mumbling racial slurs also doesn't make him look any better. If a man was stalking me I'd be incline to get the better of him too, especially if I didn't do anything wrong in the first place. My point is, even if Trayvon managed to get the upper hand in a speculated fistfight the killing still wouldn't be anywhere near justified. If what Zimmerman did was justified then I suppose a suspected rapist following a woman shouldn't be sprayed with pepper spray either...because if she did that god forbid the suspect would have the right to "stand his ground". It's the same garbage.

 

The biggest issue with the Stand your Ground law is that it is rooted in fear. Fear and guns are never a good mix.

Well, that and the fact that the law's existence basically means most of the deaths resulting from this law don't go to trail. It is like a get out of jail free card and, not surprisingly, the number of "justified homicides" have tripled since the law was put in place.

All I need to know is that Zimmerman stalked and killed a 13 year old boy because he was black, and was allowed to go home with his gun but they checked a dead boys body for drugs ... you know, just in case.

 

I hear you Denkai, and I agree 100% that stand your ground is ridiculous and asinine; it's just another worthless, violence-condoning piece crap from NRA types. Further, I'm not saying Zimmerman was justified at all, I don't think he was, UNLESS Trayvon really did go for his gun, then Zimmerman likely had little choice. But we don't know if that's true or false, it could be a lie.

The thing that is bothering me is the fact that there's a 13 year-old eye witness who claims he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, beating him as Zimmerman screamed for help... IF, and I stress IF, that is true, it blows a huge hole in the theory that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

I'm not defending anyone, I just think people should wait until ALL of the evidence is out there before they make a judgement and forcefully commit to it publicly, then they have to go into denial, if new evidence comes out, to save face. That's not justice either...

I feel it would be wise for everyone to wait until the story is totally fleshed out to make a judgement. We literally haven't even heard the whole 911 tape yet. Now why we haven't heard it, I cannot explain; that is extremely disturbing to me, why is the evidence trickling out like water from leaky faucet??? This is clearly an example of an utterly and completely botched police investigation, this is basically as bad as it gets regarding police work. To an objective observer, it looks a lot like a coverup.

Zimmerman should not have been carrying a weapon, he should not have pursued Trayvon whatsoever, he should have immediately identified himself as a neighborhood watchman. If he had done any one of those things, Trayvon would be alive today.

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BTW - I'm a big proponent of gun-control. I don't think anyone other than the police should be walking around with a handgun. If your gun is for defending your home, get a shotgun; why do you need a pistol? Why does ANYONE need to carry a concealed weapon? Laws like stand your ground, concealed carry permits and allowing people to buy assault rifles is just another example, taken from the truly endless list of thoughtless, backwards Republican ideals.

The right-wing is so painfully stupid, it's a HUGE problem for this country. These uneducated, uninformed, anti-intellectual, brainwashed Republican sheep have done nothing for this country but fuck it up. They're devolving while the rest of the world is evolving and moving forward. It's not sad, it's scary. These people are so stupid and so easily manipulated by lies, half-truths and a healthy dose of both fear/hate mongering they will believe almost anything they see on FOX or hear Rush say.

But these Republican/Tea Party types have repeatedly done real, heavy damage to this country over the last few years. The Tea Party caused us to be downgraded from our AAA rating, they've passed right to work laws in an attempt to bust unions and hurt workers (anyone noticed their pay isn't going up anymore?). The filthy rich are getting richer and spending that money to keep everyone else poor - literally.

The Koch brothers are two of the most selfish, greedy and despicable people on the planet. They throw hundreds of millions of dollars into weakening environmental protection laws so they can get a little richer polluting the air we breath and the water we drink to save a few bucks on doing things in an environmentally safe manner (all to save a little money when they're already BILLIONAIRES, they have more money than they could ever spend already, but they pursue their empty, hollow quest like the monsters they are)...

The Koch borthers throw countless millions behind busting unions, trying to eliminate the minimum wage, fighting to end, or even better, privatize social security so someone can make profit off it instead of giving it all to the people who paid into it, ending medicare, pushing for the rich and big corporations to pay far less in taxes while the middle-class and poor somehow find a way foot the bill - and if not, get sent to some privatized prison where another wealthy monster makes a profit off of depriving you of your freedom, and we can't forget about shoving an ultrasound probe into a woman's vagina to shame them for getting an abortion.

The right-wing is truly sick. It's frightening if you think about it. The countless underhanded plots to undermine progress in America and the growth of the middle class. From voter suppression and voter IDs to forcing a woman to have her rapists baby. These guys gotta go, NOW.

Vote for sanity in November 2012, I implore you to make the right choice.

 

Both parties' candidates are as principled as their campaign backers, handlers, and party need them to be. I don't think gun control or the lack thereof is going to do anything to make the underlying attitudes disappear.

I think this case is about white privilege and little else. It's such a contentious subject in the US political discourse it's almost taboo to bring up, but here it is again. It's also not a partisan, left-right issue either - have a look at what I found on the Occupy STL page: http://newsone.com/nation/elonjameswhite/how-occupy-wall-street-co-opted-the-million-hoodie-march/

I think some of the Occupy groups realized what had happened afterward and got worried, but it still occurred without anyone on OWS' part thinking that it might've been a problem. This was extremely sensitive issue that occupy, presumably sympathetic to the message, showed up and thought it was ok to co-opt it for a discussion of their agenda nonetheless.

 

1. This all started because Trayvon was black, and walking down the street.

Seriously.

2. A fearful person doesn't put themselves in harms way.

Mr. Zimmerman was perfectly "safe" in his car. Stepping out of your vehicle doesn't exactly tell me you're deathly afraid of bodily harm. Especially when you're the one casting suspicion on another individual.

3. Phone records prove that Trayvon was on the phone minutes before his death. So what you're telling me is his last conversation went something like this: "Hold on babe, I'm about to crack this guy from behind ..."

Somehow that doesn't fit.

Zimmerman obviously wanted a confrontation with Trayvon, and felt confident because he had a concealed firearm. Neighborhood Watch is strictly observe and report. He had no right.

I blame Zimmerman completely.

 

Look, the whole case is going to come down to some form of voice analysis to determine exactly who was screaming for help.

If it was Trayvon, Zimmerman is done, his defense goes out the window.

However, if it was Zimmerman yelling for help, he is likely to get off.

 

It would be good to know more, but if Zimmerman started the confrotation and THEN used his gun he should still be put through trial. Not sure if that's a loop hole or not, but it's a nasty oversight if so.

Actually they should through him in prison so he can start all the shit he wants there. No shortage of people looking for fights in there.

 

Gernburgs, Zimmerman can say he's the emperor of Toon Town. The other guy is dead, and there are no substantial witnesses. The girlfriend has a contradicting testimony, and just because some people say Trayvon was on top doesn't mean a thing.

One New Years evening a friend and I were held at gunpoint by Boston police because we "fit the description" of shooters from a nearby garage. I was detained in handcuffs while they badgered my friend. They searched our vehicle (found nothing of course) and kept asking:

"Come on man, where are the drugs?"

What a fucking embarrassment.

"Yeah, sorry about that. You understand ..."

No officer, I don't understand. I don't understand at all. You could have shot and killed me. Thank you for being the first person to ever to make me fear for my life.

Having a had a gun shoved in my face replayed 100x over in my head: What if he shot me? What if I didn't die right away? How would people remember me?

No one deserves that, and that's the point trying to make here. Racial profiling is the issue here. It shouldn't have happened - period.

 

I had several run-ins with the police myself, even handcuffed one time...and each time it was situations similar to what you just stated Jerky. Luckily for me they didn't put a gun up in my face... definitely racial profiling no if's and's or but's about it. When I told the cop that I've never been arrested before he looked at me shocked and said "get out of here! you joking?" I wonder why?. They assume that basically every black guy has been through the court system at least once in his lifetime

 

Dude.,. did you read Florida's Stand your ground law.

According to that law there won't be a trial, which means a jury won't be deciding shit because the law says if you kill someone because you felt your life was in jeopardy, then you are immune from prosecution. That's it, its not up to a jury, because there will be no jury. Don't talk about wait until all the facts come out, because there won't be a trial. Did yall fuckin read the law. What do you mean wait until all of the evidence comes out? There is no obligation for all of the evidence to come out, because under that law you are IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION. Which means:

NO ARREST
NO TRIAL
NO TESTIFYING UNDER OATH
NO PUBLIC SEEING THE EVIDENCE
NO FUCKING JURY
NO DEFENSE ATTORNEY
NO JUSTICE

Read the God DAMNED LAW
The Florida's Stand your Ground Law

I mean read this !@#$

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution†includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).



In Florida you simply have the right to blow somebody's fuckin head off if you
even imagine that you're threatened.

 

I saw something tonight on The Ed Show and am now convinced that Zimmerman is guilty AND the police are trying to cover up the crime. Zimmerman needs to go to jail for murder, period. I also feel that any officer from the Sanford police force, who was involved with case and apparent coverup, needs to be replaced and the chief needs to be fired and his retirement or pension should be denied.

All I wanted to see was SOMETHING, anything that was 100% factual (video is the best evidence there is) and now that I've seen it, I want to see Zimmerman go down for being a liar and a fake rent-a-cop murderer. The Sanford PD is just blatantly dishonest and very evil; they probably just liked Zimmerman because he was on their balls hard.

Now what did I see???

The police surveillance video from inside the station showing NO injuries to Zimmerman whatsoever! Nothing on the back of his head AT ALL; there are no visible marks, cuts, blood, nothing. Further, his nose looked totally fine and normal. No swelling, no blood, just nothing. It is so clear to me now that this is a police coverup of the murder of child.

It gets worse though... On the original police report, they had Trayvon's full name, age/DOB and street address. So why was he tagged as a John Doe??? That classification prohibited the parents from seeing and/or picking up the body for THREE DAYS, when they knew exactly who he was the whole time. Otherwise, they went back and edited the original report which is illegal and also indicative of a coverup; if they added his name, what else did they change? It makes the whole report bogus.

I don't really need to see anything else. If they produce photos of his injuries, why didn't he have any when he arrived at the police station? There were no grass stains on anything he was wearing and he CLEARLY did not look like a person who just got severely beaten for a minute straight; absolutely not, that is clearly a lie from the video.

I also noted there were no blood stains on Zimmerman's clothes, which I assume there should be if he actually shot someone who was supposedly physically on top of him. I don't believe any of that happened and I do not believe Zimmerman was actually in danger, I don't think there was even a fight from the looks of it.

I've seen what I need to see. Zimmerman is guilty of murder and the police are guilty of covering it up. I'm pissed about this, cause this looks SOOOO shady from every angle now.

 

Welcome.

 

ABC News: Surveillance Video of George Zimmerman

 

That sucks, but where do they say racial slurs are used? Looks like a plain robbery of two drunkards roaming into the hood case to me. Oh and the boy who killed them? Two life sentences.
Why did you bring this one up again? You know, besides in attempt to derail the thread into some broad general racial discussion.

OOOH, it's Tengu....