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Judging VF4

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Guest, Jan 15, 2000.

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  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    Re: Life bars

    Quite an interesting discussion going on. I can't say I'm entirely for the idea of an invisible life bar though. Even though it may have the good intentions of forcing players to keep the game pace flowing fast and furious right to the very end, I feel that you'll be missing out on some potentially exciting moments like those huge come-backs from near-zero health for example. With invisible life bars, I don't see any other practical method of indicating the character's energy status (please, no bruising either). If you have two players of the right "VF" mindset, then games should always remain highly intense right down to the very end. Also, there's a good feeling in thwarting a turtle who solely tries to finish you off with a "cheap attack".

    So, I was just thing of alternatives for representing life bars, and this little gem of a game from my Amiga 500 days came to mind -- Panzer Kick Boxing. It think that's what it was called. In that game, life bars were represented by a series of 4 or so spotlights which would progressively dim down as you took damage. At first glance, it looks no different from a traditional life bar, with the first light going out before the second, and so on. When all lights are out, well, it's lights out (sorry!). But the interesting thing is, if you go some time without being hit, the lights will slowly begin to illuminate again. However, even though your life bar slowly increases, your stamina/endurance doesn't and it remains low as if you were on your last legs. What this means is that even if your lights are all on (life bar 100%), a big hit can, and most often will, knock your lights out! Similarly though, and this is the bit I like, small or weak attacks will not have the capacity to knock you out.

    So the incentive to play aggressively and KO your opponent as fast as possible remains, without losing any indication of a life bar. Anyway, I was just partly considering an alternative to the conventional life bar, and partly reminiscing on a classic game. Personally though, I would prefer if VF keeps the current life bar representation, and ultimately, it's the player's decision on how they play. An endurance/life bar hybrid is more suited to Boxing style games (which Panzer Kick Boxing belonged to) and I don't think it would carry over too well into the VF series. Sega can only do so much to dictate "how" the game should be played totally ruining IMHO.

    __
    m y k e
    how ya gonna win when ya ain't right within?
     
    Myke, May 21, 2000
    #21
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Life bars

    I'm responding to the thread in general, so I'm just going to insert my two cents here. /images/icons/wink.gif

    I too do not think a point system will not work well. Here are my reasons:

    - Technically, the life bar IS a point system. It is a system that brings balance to the moves in the game. An attack that is fast and non-counterable? Make it weak in damage (i.e. low points). Wouldn't instituting the "merit" point system mentioned above just be trading one sheep for another?

    - The proposed point system is only of interest to the most advanced players. Beginners will find it confusing, and this isn't really something that VF needs. [sad]

    - I generally agree with what spotlite is advocating, but as joet somewhat touched upon, every move has benefits and costs. If a character has a guaranteed counter to a certain move, it was done on purpose. An Akira player that attempts a deep bodycheck does so knowing that there is a long recovery time should he miss. There is a risk associated to the highly damaging and quick attack; the fact that a PP is guaranteed brings balance to the game. Otherwise, Akira players may choose to keep doing bodychecks over and over if they know at worst they could only be punished 50/50 (i.e. high risk / high damage attack or a throw) under the proposed point system. What we'll end up with is a bastardized version of Soul Calibur.

    - The alternative is to set up the merit point system as a complement to the life bar. But can anyone honestly expect people to care? Just look at SFIII: 3S--I don't play to maximise my ranking/grade (I don't really know how, heh heh). If I want to win though, I wouldn't let some rank get in the way; I'd just play to win. If I want to win stylishly though, that is my choice and something I'd do regardless of the rank system. The same also goes for VF. Only advanced players will "get" a point system, and they are the only ones that can make a conscious choice of choosing an "interesting" style of play or a boring one.

    - Sometimes, I just want to play the "boring" style--punches, elbows, CDPs, et. al. For some players and some styles of play, that's the only/best way of beating them.

    And finally, I will bring up the Shun DP example again. There is a very good reason why AM2 chose to keep track of Shun's DP points for the player.

    ice-9
     
    ice-9, May 22, 2000
    #22
  3. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Ikekuburo Sarah

    ive heard about how harcore the japanese are about vf. is it just because the game is so great or are they just hardcore in general? do they do this kind of stuff over tekken etc? or to the same extent? are there any games they hold in higher esteem than vf?

    Be careful about generalizing. Yes, on the whole, the Japanese market seems more susceptible to games like VF, although interest seems to have shifted to Bemani games--however, whether that is any less "hardcore" is a relative thing to say. This is a market where a game like Final Fantasy sells a few million in a weekend.

    VF is certainly an awesome game, and anyone participating in this board will probably attest to that. VF is and always was the biggest innovator in the genre. Tekken is loved as well, but is there any doubt that Tekken is "merely" another interpretation of VF? VF is the first and it is the original, and it seems the Japanese have rewarded the franchise with their loyalty because of it.

    ice-9
     
    ice-9, May 22, 2000
    #23
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