IMO Virtua Fighter is KING

As long as you're addressing points, how about the paper-rock-scissors syndrome?

"If you attack I will reverse."
"ha, if you reverse I have plenty of time to throw"
"if you try for a throw I will attack"
"ha, if you attack I will reverse blah blah blah"

I can see the reply: "that's a gross oversimplification of the game system, you can simplify VF4 that way too" ... but that's not quite true.

Well, I'm sure the decent way to make my point is not to say "doa sucks" but rather say why I like VF over DOA:
1. The throw escape system - VF has one /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
2. Reversals in VF are just right... 20% if they're good. DOA range from, iirc, 20% for typical reversals, 25% for late reversals, 30% for perfectly timed reversals. None of this takes into account reversals that set up combos.
3. You can be reeling from some special heavy stun or crumple in DOA, then suddenly reverse their incoming attack. WTF? I guess the idea is DOA's got to have some system by which you can avoid getting stunned/staggered repeatedly and then floated for a combo. But it doesn't seem like a very elegant solution.
4. Throws in DOA are by and large the strongest things in your arsenal (just so you don't accuse me of jumping on the "Reversals are the strongest thing in the game!" bandwagon. But it seems like too many characters in DOA get throws that inflict a massive chunk of life. Even the strongest grappler in VF maxes out his throw damage at 40%, but generally throws are closer to 20-25%.
5. I like VF's combo system better, and the damage scaling feels about right. You can get to 30% damage easily, with work/creativity 40%, past that takes unusual circumstances.

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
1) the reversals in VF4 are better because it has less frames to execute.
2) the game is focused upon reversals, while VF4 uses a mixture of throws, attacks and SS.
3) the reversals are less punishable.
4)one technique rules the whole game
5) its a vf4 ripoff...etc..etc..


[/ QUOTE ] 1) Exactly. OK, read carefully.......This means actual "skill" and "variety" is required.
2) Couldn't have said it better myself
3) Reversals are punishable in VF4 <font color="yellow"> IF </font color>you know how to deal with them. Once again, reversing is not always the best option. Get it?
4) What I meant was the reversal system is a MAJOR flaw in DOA3. I never said it ruled the whole game.
5) If team ninja is trying to ripoff VF, they're doing a piss poor job of it.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
ummmmm....you realy dont know anything about doa3 do you..I can see why the environmental issue will go over your head ,since environmental awareness in vf4 is not as prominent as it is in doa3.
let me break it down for you....fighting in an area with trees, ice pillars, stone pillars, walls, danger zones(explosive walls), multi-tiered platforms, slippery surfaces and the undulated terrain, heightens environmental awarness. unlike vf4 where you fight on a basic (flat) square ring with maybe a wall,in doa3 you have to think about how all those formentioned factors are going to help you win the match. you have to find strategies to get environmental damage inflicted upon your opponent, while your opponent have to think of counter strategies for your assault.


[/ QUOTE ]
Blah, blah, blah... /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
Here is the main difference between the two. Let me break this down for YOU. VF is focused purely on hand to hand combat, not special effects.

"environmental damage".....LOL!! I guess I'm too shallow to truly appreciate the joy of knocking my opponent onto an electrified fence for the victory......Too bad. /versus/images/icons/blush.gif

 

"As long as you're addressing points, how about the paper-rock-scissors syndrome?"-creed-

the rps syndrome thing pops up all the time. like you said it happens in vf4 as well. but doa3 is not played with rps like you make it out to seem. what about the block option,that alone make it more than rps. what about free step dodging, or attacks defeating other attacks, throws beating out other throws,throws beating out attacks, that does not fit into rps, and that happens all the time. there are such things as move prioritiy in doa3. what about attacks that are HR(hold resistant) that cannot be countered. if you want to narrow it down just to throw beat hold and hold beat strike, and strike beat throw to its simplist form, than yes doa3 has a rps system. but since doa3 is not played to that simplest form, doa3 is no more rps than vf4 or tk4..

since points are being made, dont you think the low punch syndrome in vf4 has too much priority...dont answer it, i know the answer, it fits into vf4 gameplay with all these other reasons, just like the reversals work in doa3 /versus/images/icons/ooo.gif

"1. The throw escape system - VF has one "-creed-

vf4 you can throw escape everything, but in doa3 you can throw escape simple throws and chain throws. throws with more complex comands cannot be escaped

"2. Reversals in VF are just right... 20% if they're good. DOA range from, iirc, 20% for typical reversals, 25% for late reversals, 30% for perfectly timed reversals. None of this takes into account reversals that set up combos. "-creed-

do you mean just right for YOU, or THE GAME. if vf4 reversals are just right for you and doa3 is not, then thats a reasonable explanation. but if you are going to say that doa3 reversalsare bad compared to vf4's, than you are not taking into consideration how the reversals work for doa3. if the reversals in vf4 was as long as doa3's, than there would be a balance issue, BUT IN THE GAME OF DOA3, it works just fine.

"3. You can be reeling from some special heavy stun or crumple in DOA, then suddenly reverse their incoming attack. WTF? I guess the idea is DOA's got to have some system by which you can avoid getting stunned/staggered repeatedly and then floated for a combo. But it doesn't seem like a very elegant solution."-creed-

first they need to know your next attack for your opponent can counter. there is also delay strings and free canceling that could prevent them from reversing, also you could time your attack just right to cancel their hold attempt. throwing out reversals can get you in big trouble when your up against a skilled opponent.

breaking out of a stun works very well in doa3. the stun break atleast give you the option to defend your self while stuned.and it also keeps the action in progress. also, you may not know this, but there is a stun in doa3 that cannot be stun breaked, its called the LS(limbo stun)and it takes much more skill to pull off than just a regular stun..

"4. Throws in DOA are by and large the strongest things in your arsenal (just so you don't accuse me of jumping on the "Reversals are the strongest thing in the game!" bandwagon. But it seems like too many characters in DOA get throws that inflict a massive chunk of life. Even the strongest grappler in VF maxes out his throw damage at 40%, but generally throws are closer to 20-25%."-creed-

you are doing it again, you are comparing what vf4 does to doa3...remember, diferent games different rules. remember, when playing doa3, you are not following the laws of vf4,different things apply.

"5. I like VF's combo system better, and the damage scaling feels about right. You can get to 30% damage easily, with work/creativity 40%, past that takes unusual circumstances."-creed-

no arguments there, in your opinion you like vf4 combo system better.
I feel doa's is just as good. I could do basic combo strings, delayed combo strings, and free cancel combo strings(for more complex mixups).there are alot of environmental objects that add to your combo ability.

 

"1) Exactly. OK, read carefully.......This means actual "skill" and "variety" is required."-dre-

WRONG... it may take no skill to be a counter masher, but going against some one who could just cancel your hold attempt is not, reversals leave you open for punishment unlike in vf4(atleast more so), so you have to know the exact time to do it or you will get counter attacked or counter thrown.

"2) Couldn't have said it better myself"-dre-

than you just proven you know knothing about doa3.
doing a reversal in doa3 is dangerous. like I said if you play like a scrub, thats the type of game you are going to get.

"4) What I meant was the reversal system is a MAJOR flaw in DOA3. I never said it ruled the whole game."-dre-

you see ait as a flaw because everyone has one and its easy to do...but as easy as it is to do, it is very easy to stop it ,and your opponent(or you ) will face a great deal of punishment if you dont use "skill". to pull of a counter.

"5) If team ninja is trying to ripoff VF, they're doing a piss poor job of it."-dre-

well I know they are not, BUT some vf fans think so. I happen to enjoy both games for what they have to offer.

"Blah, blah, blah...
Here is the main difference between the two. Let me break this down for YOU. VF is focused purely on hand to hand combat, not special effects."-dre-

I know what vf4 is about, Im telling you what doa3 is about since you know very little about its actual gameplay. those "special effects" happen to bring alot of depth thats not found in vf4. vf4 is the king of pure hand to hand combat, I definitely agree with that( I love my pai),
but doa3 is the king of character interaction with the environment. what ever doa3 lacks in the hand to hand department, it pushes itself back up with the environmental asthetics.

"environmental damage".....LOL!! I guess I'm too shallow to truly appreciate the joy of knocking my opponent onto an electrified fence for the victory......Too bad. "-dre-

so environmental damage is not your thing, I guess using a great strategy to knock your opponent out the ring is too much for you huh. or doing a wall combo juggle for more hits.

its not only about what you knocked your opponent into, its the skill that it takes to knock them into it. if you are playing someone(like myself) who free steps and frees step dodge alot, you would need alot of skill to knock them into a electric fence. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

 

hmm... last time I checked, VF had wall combos, ring outs, etc. as well. The reason we don't like DOA3 is because throws and reversals are much easier to land and much more rewarding, as opposed to attacking and blocking; so much so that it turns the myriad options of VF4 into a straight-up RPS game. Every option you have in DOA3, you have in VF4, but you don't have stuff like command throw escapes, sabaki, etc. in DOA3. The reason we don't like big reversals is not that they own the game, it's that they don't require as much strategy to use: do you know the followup, no matter how cleverly he stunned you? boom, 25% life. Do you know a reversal is coming? boom, 40% life. I like my matches to be more than a best-of-seven RPS game with environmental effects, thank you.

 

"hmm... last time I checked, VF had wall combos, ring outs, etc. as well. The reason we don't like DOA3 is because throws and reversals are much easier to land and much more rewarding, as opposed to attacking and blocking;"-Robyrt-

so reversals are more rewarding in doa3, ok, as much as it is rewarding, it is very risky(punishable). you cant throw out a reversal like you do in vf4, and have enough time to recover and preceed to fighting. this is what most of you are not getting. you could easily be attacked if you miss a reversal attempt(big time damage is inflicted).no matter how easy or rewarding it is, it is very risky. the rewards and the punishment justifies the means.

"- so much so that it turns the myriad options of VF4 into a straight-up RPS game. Every option you have in DOA3, you have in VF4, but you don't have stuff like command throw escapes, sabaki, etc. in DOA3."-Robyrt-

the last time I played doa3, it played deeper than rps, the example in my other post shows how. I know vf4 have options that are not in doa3.but every option doa3 has is not present in vf4. doa3 has options that are not in vf4, like moving blocks, HR attacks, free canceling, air throws..etc..etc..so i realy dont see the point of mentioning that.

"The reason we don't like big reversals is not that they own the game, it's that they don't require as much strategy to use: do you know the followup, no matter how cleverly he stunned you? boom, 25% life. Do you know a reversal is coming? boom, 40% life."-Robyrt-

um, your example shows how two scrubs will play doa3. first off, once you play doa3 long enough, you know how the animation of the reversal look. you could easily delay your combo string, if your opponent is reading your attacks, then you could free cancel in a new combo string to throw him off...etc..etc..
also, you just dont throw out random attacks so your opponent can counter you, nor do you do random reversals so that you will get attacked. it takes skill and practice to actually mixup your attacks so that you wont be reversed. actually, you have to mix up your attacks and strategies more often in doa3 than you have to in vf4, its not doa3's fault that you do not know how to play. if you wasn't so stuck up in vf4, you could probably see some of the things that i am talking about.

like i said earlier, reversals in doa3 may be rewarding and easy to pull off, but they are very punishable. if you are actually going to play doa3 the CORRECT WAY, you will use reversals sparingly. throwing out at a ill timed reversal will cost you alot of energy.
doa3 system is more balanced than you think.

"I like my matches to be more than a best-of-seven RPS game with environmental effects, thank you."-Robyrt-

than I suggest you play doa3 the correct way then, not as some reversal mashing scrub who thinks he could just reverse everything.

some of you vf fans put to much priority on the reversal issue in doa3. get over it, cuase the game does not play like that unless you are a scrub trying to use vf skills in doa3...lol..that must be it, you guys think you could use what you know in vf4 and think it will transition over. and when you realise that it does not work the same way, then the game must be broken..LMAO..
If I was some scrub player coming to play vf4 and I did what some of you guys are doing, I could find all the reasons why vf4 is broken becuase it does not have the same emphasis as in doa3.but i dont, because im not expecting the same experience. if doa3 was very similar to vf4, I would be pissed. that would be spending 100+ on practically the same game.

 

It all depends on what you want in a fighting game.

DOA takes no skill at all, from reversals to knocking people off the level, to pulling off combos, its an easy game to play, thats all. Say what you want about the strategy of the game, in the end its an easy game that takes no effort, thats why little grade school kids can play it.

VF4, like i've said before is for gameplay strategy.

 

but since doa3 is not played to that simplest form, doa3 is no more rps than vf4 or tk4..

The thing is, the rock paper scissors in VFisn't so utterly cut and dried. You reversed and they attacked - monster reversal window, reversal wins. You reversed and they didn't attack? Monster recovery window, you are thrown. You know the throw is coming? Too bad, complex throws are not escapeable, there's no mindgame, you just kiss 30-35% goodbye. So your reversals are high risk and high reward.. the middle ground is attack. But very few (if any?!) attacks are irreversible, so ever single attack is an invitation to lose 25% to a reversal.

The equivalent situation in VF:
You think they will attack, you reverse... your timing is off, you lose. Your timing is on, you win 20%.
You expect an attack, and they guarded instead, and your reversal whiffs... as you said, it's harder to punish VF reversals. You've lost initiative but you still have a 50% chance of avoiding damage, more if you use stuff like EDTEG (I don't see EDTEG in doa so I don't know what the equivalent is, or if there is one).
So your opponent hates getting reversed... next time he does an irreversible attack like akira's double palm or something.

The mini-mindgames that happen in these situations are what separate VF rock-paper-scissors from DOA's rock-paper-scissors. Naturally attacks beating attacks etc applies to both games, but also I find that in VF the attack risk/reward is more logical. You can do jabs and get initiative or a big move and get a combo. If DOA you might as well go for a big move because if they reversed it's 25% regardless. Well, wait, no, that's not fair, you can do some lame PPP strings that knock people out the window and through several billboards for 50% life /versus/images/icons/wink.gif
(I'm quoting from a friend so don't hate me too much if this is grossly inaccurate)

if the reversals in vf4 was as long as doa3's, than there would be a balance issue, BUT IN THE GAME OF DOA3, it works just fine.

Think you have it backwards, if the reversals in DOA were as long and as strict as VF4's, that's a balance issue... 25% reward, little risk. But lengthy reversal animations in VF4 would just take a moderately crappy move and make it very crappy... no balance problems though.
And I mean in general, 20% is just right. 25% for guessing the opponent was going to go mid is just too much if 1/3rd to 1/2 the attacks in the game are mid reversible.

re: limbo stun: yeah read the faq on this.
My problem with the stun system is again it's sort of an ugly solution. The closest equivalent is the tech roll guessing games of VF, but that's a bit tighter and more interesting. Rather than a 1 button escape from damage, you tech roll and are then presented with a 4-way situation... guard high, guard low, low punch, or do your best FC attack. TR mindgames are great - I know you'll hold guard, I low throw because you can't stand up in time to block it. I know you like low throw, I low punch or do my FC attack. I know you like FC or WS attacks so I do a sidekick or something next time. You pick up on that and guard high next time. I pick up on that and high throw. You get the idea. DOA - if I'm stunned and want to avoid damage I have one option - reverse. If you pick up on that you use one of your delayed attack strategems or throw. Then there's the whole realm of backstagger TR games, which in some cases have very tight timing.

I keep mentioning timing because in DOA, I see a big lack of the need for it. Anyway, am I fair comparing stuns to TR's? To me TR's are the closest match to a stun situation.. stuns aren't really like VF crumples because VF crumples are combos-on-a-silver-platter. They also aren't like elbow/sidekick staggers because those are based on struggling skill, reflexes, and brains, while stuns are pretty much a sure thing unless I reverse, correct? No struggling?

remember, diferent games different rules. remember, when playing doa3, you are not following the laws of vf4,different things apply.

That's a copout /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
By that argument, comparing the two is utterly without merit. But it IS fair to compare the two because aside from some very important tweaks, VF and doa are the same engine. High, mid, low hit levels, high and low guard, high/mid low reversals, throws and low throws, basic throws and command throws etc etc. They are very very similar except for the parts I don't like /versus/images/icons/smirk.gif

Re: combo damage - I can't find combo faqs for DOA on gamefaqs, and regular guides are conspicuously missing them. So just as an honest out-of-curiousity question, what's typical for DOA combo damage? I don't know what to expect, knowing there's that stun system and environmental damage etc. Assuming no help from the environment, what's a perfect jann lee .. .say, uf+K combo? Or what do you think each character maxes out at for utterly-inescapable-combos-without-walls? And how hard are these combos?

Re: VF low punch - it's overrated... The only thing a low punch ever nets you with certainty if you know when to use it is 12 points of damage. The rest is based on reflexes, prediction, guessing games, etc.

 

"The thing is, the rock paper scissors in VFisn't so utterly cut and dried. You reversed and they attacked - monster reversal window, reversal wins. You reversed and they didn't attack? Monster recovery window, you are thrown. You know the throw is coming? Too bad, complex throws are not escapeable, there's no mindgame, you just kiss 30-35% goodbye. So your reversals are high risk and high reward.. the middle ground is attack. But very few (if any?!) attacks are irreversible, so ever single attack is an invitation to lose 25% to a reversal. "-creed-

there are attacks that are HR, that only give you a position advantage, with out any damage intake.
that plays a big part in doa3 as well. you have to know the right time to impliment those moves. also, when you do such a risky move such as a reversal in doa3, you should not have the benifit of excaping from your punishment. what kind of incentives would it have to not being punished for your miscalculation.

"The equivalent situation in VF:
You think they will attack, you reverse... your timing is off, you lose. Your timing is on, you win 20%.
You expect an attack, and they guarded instead, and your reversal whiffs... as you said, it's harder to punish VF reversals. You've lost initiative but you still have a 50% chance of avoiding damage, more if you use stuff like EDTEG (I don't see EDTEG in doa so I don't know what the equivalent is, or if there is one).
So your opponent hates getting reversed... next time he does an irreversible attack like akira's double palm or something."-creed-

what is an EDTEG? it would have been more understandable if it was not abbriviated. the reward and punishment systems for the two games are totaly different. think about it, why should your punishment be low for a missed reversal, when reversals take out a decent amout of energy. the amount of the award must also be equal to the punishment.reversals in vf4 are low because the lack of availability, and the less frames you have to execute. its also less punishable for the same reasons.

in doa3 of course you do more reversals than in vf4(cause every character has one), but because its reward and punishment are so high(higher than that of vf4's), its not used as much as attacks and throws.

"The mini-mindgames that happen in these situations are what separate VF rock-paper-scissors from DOA's rock-paper-scissors. Naturally attacks beating attacks etc applies to both games, but also I find that in VF the attack risk/reward is more logical. You can do jabs and get initiative or a big move and get a combo. If DOA you might as well go for a big move because if they reversed it's 25% regardless. Well, wait, no, that's not fair, you can do some lame PPP strings that knock people out the window and through several billboards for 50% life
(I'm quoting from a friend so don't hate me too much if this is grossly inaccurate)"-creed-

you are basing the whole situacion on rather your opponent does a reversal. in high level play in doa3, reversal are cut down to a minimum.for ex, poking, delay strings, free step dodging, environmental positioning are some of the things that take place more frequently. also, if you free step dodge, you could get a launcher and set up a juggle that would surpass the damage intake of a reversal. the reversals are not the only means of avoiding attacks.

as for the lame pppk combo to knock someone out of windows..etc.. if you LET some one knock you out of the window, than you are just a plane scrub. if you and your opponent were actually strategizing, you would be moving all around your opponent, and the many obstacles around you. doa3 is not vf4 with that slow 8way walk movement. doa3 was built for moving around your opponent and obstacles. you have many options for not being knocked out of a window,
1)block
2)reverse
3) free step dodge
4) free step blocking(moving blocks)


"re: limbo stun: yeah read the faq on this.
My problem with the stun system is again it's sort of an ugly solution. The closest equivalent is the tech roll guessing games of VF, but that's a bit tighter and more interesting. Rather than a 1 button escape from damage, you tech roll and are then presented with a 4-way situation... guard high, guard low, low punch, or do your best FC attack. TR mindgames are great - I know you'll hold guard, I low throw because you can't stand up in time to block it. I know you like low throw, I low punch or do my FC attack. I know you like FC or WS attacks so I do a sidekick or something next time. You pick up on that and guard high next time. I pick up on that and high throw. You get the idea."-creed-

I get it, and you could also do that in doa3.

"DOA - if I'm stunned and want to avoid damage I have one option - reverse. If you pick up on that you use one of your delayed attack strategems or throw."-creed-

all the stuns dont have the same stun break timing. and there are stuns that are unbreakable as well(besides the limbo stun)so you can get a good amount of damage by knowing the time your opponent can stun break. you can also stun a stuned character as well in doa3, causing a more damaging stun, or making the stun animation longer.

"I keep mentioning timing because in DOA, I see a big lack of the need for it."-creed-

just by going through what you and I wrote, you should see by now how important timing in doa3 is. you carelessly do anything in doa3, and you will be punished. timing of throws, attacks, holds, and free stepping are very crucial. anybody could play the game easily, but its realy hard to master.

"Anyway, am I fair comparing stuns to TR's? To me TR's are the closest match to a stun situation"-creed-

stuns are stuns and TR's are TR's, they are not comparable at all.

.. "stuns aren't really like VF crumples because VF crumples are combos-on-a-silver-platter. They also aren't like elbow/sidekick staggers because those are based on struggling skill, reflexes, and brains, while stuns are pretty much a sure thing unless I reverse, correct? No struggling?"-creed-

breaking out of a stun in vf4 requires no brains, or skill. it does require the struggling aspect of trying to get your character out of a stun. to actually break a stun and reverse your opponent in doa3 takes skill, brains, and reflexes. like you stated earlier "if I'm stunned and want to avoid damage I have one option - reverse. If you pick up on that you use one of your delayed attack strategems or throw".becuse of that, I have to time my reversal just right, and to do that it takes skill and brains. there maynot be a struggle for your opponent to break out of a stun in doa3, but to get a combo sting is. like you said, "crumples are combos-on-a-silver-platter".
in doa3, you have to work much more harder to pull off a succesful string compared to vf4.

so in both areas of the stun/combo scenario, it takes much more skill in doa3 than it does in vf4.

"That's a copout
By that argument, comparing the two is utterly without merit. But it IS fair to compare the two because aside from some very important tweaks, VF and doa are the same engine. High, mid, low hit levels, high and low guard, high/mid low reversals, throws and low throws, basic throws and command throws etc etc. They are very very similar except for the parts I don't like"-creed-

its not a cop out, but the truth. you cant compare individual aspects with out comparing how it works in unity with the rest of the gameplay mechanics. this is what most vf4 players do. they compare reversals, than complain about the damage intake for doa3's, with out considering how it works with the rest of the system.

"Re: combo damage - I can't find combo faqs for DOA on gamefaqs, and regular guides are conspicuously missing them. So just as an honest out-of-curiousity question, what's typical for DOA combo damage?
I don't know what to expect, knowing there's that stun system and environmental damage etc. Assuming no help from the environment, what's a perfect jann lee .. .say, uf+K combo? Or what do you think each character maxes out at for utterly-inescapable-combos-without-walls? And how hard are these combos?"-creed-

its equal to like 1/6 or 1/5 of the life bar. most of the big damage comes from the environment. this is where alot of doa3's strategy comes from. there is damage scaling in doa3 as well, the more hits, the less damage intake per move.

 

You sound as retarded as Anthony Chau, you sure youre not him?

 

Hehehe, Reno has plenty of experience with DoA3(he wrote an official guide about it) and he had some nice exchanges with Anthony about the game, Reno is staying out of this one tough wich strengthens my belief that Hayate here is the ex GF editor im talking about.

 

"Hehehe, Reno has plenty of experience with DoA3(he wrote an official guide about it) and he had some nice exchanges with Anthony about the game, Reno is staying out of this one tough wich strengthens my belief that Hayate here is the ex GF editor im talking about."- alamaci-

1)lol, im not that person in which you speak of.

2) I have another name also which is virtuaPAI, which is older than the name on this account im using now. If I had remembered my password, I will be using it now.

3) I communicate with alot of the high archy of the doa3 community. I have not created a faq just yet, but im in the process of creating a faq on doa3's environmental properties, its importance, and how to take every single environmental variable and use it for your advantage.

4) the most funniest thing is, you are saying i sound retarded, yet like many others, you cant grasp the concept of doa3 with out refering it to vf4 to see if it fits the mold of that game. if its not like vf4 oh it must be broken. vf4 is a great game, but no other fighter needs to be in its shadow just to be a good game. you either like it or not, but if you dont have enough gameplay experience or knowlege of the game, or you expecting a vf4 experience, then how can you pass judgement.

 

"This thread is quite informative IMO, I enjoy reading it, and I'm learning more about DoA in the process. If I were to score this 'debate' I'd put Hyate ahead in my books. I'm not convinced CreeD knows his DoA enough (no offence dude ), but it doesn't matter anyway. Let those involved bash it out intelligently as they have been doing so far, and eventually (hopefully?) a resolution and/or understanding will be reached.

In the meantime, if anyone doesn't like it, please kindly stfu."-Myke-

thank you very much, I wish there was more open mided people like yourself.

Im not hear stating doa3 is deeper than vf4, or its a better game. Im stating its a better game than alot of you are giving it credit for. vf4 hands down beats doa3 in the hand to hands department. but the combine sum of the environment and the hand to hand equals the depth thats found in vf4. like i said b4, different games different rules.

 

Hehehehe, oh and regarding Reno we are not talking some faq here, he wrote a ful on print guide and had lengthy discussions with people from Tecmo about the game, I wonder why he isnt getting involved in this?
Reno get yer semi Asian ass in here.

 

VF players can appreciate other fighters too

I tend to agree with Hyate, that DOA3 is a game that is worth it's salt. I play it occasionally, and I do have a sense that it's a good fighting game. Unfortunately until I get some PS-to-XBOX controller adapters I'm stuck playing it on a pad (ugh). I'm sure I'll find the game much more rewarding on sticks.

cheers,
kbcat -- I think VF is the best, but I don't think all other 3D fighters suck (well some do, but I don't think DOA3 is one of them).

 

ok, doa2 was the better game, doa3 is the same game without "arcade reversals" which weirdly enough only a couple of characters can do (like 2!!1 wtf). y'll can talk all you want about how doa3 is good cause of some gameplay blah blah blah and all, but if the way you do reversals is just like ps2's "ps2 mode" AKA easy reversals, then i wont play it and its crap, they did everything right but they had to screw up on that, why in the hell theres not an option to play in "arcade reversals"?? so to resume:

doa2 = GREAT game
doa3 without arcade reversal = crap
doa3 with option for arcade reversal = VERY GREAT game

thas right, the non arcade rev killed it!! the rest is just fine.

Ps. hyate DOES know what he's talking about tho.

 

"ok, doa2 was the better game, doa3 is the same game without "arcade reversals" which weirdly enough only a couple of characters can do (like 2!!1 wtf). y'll can talk all you want about how doa3 is good cause of some gameplay blah blah blah and all, but if the way you do reversals is just like ps2's "ps2 mode" AKA easy reversals, then i wont play it and its crap, they did everything right but they had to screw up on that, why in the hell theres not an option to play in "arcade reversals"?? so to resume:

doa2 = GREAT game
doa3 without arcade reversal = crap
doa3 with option for arcade reversal = VERY GREAT game
thas right, the non arcade rev killed it!! the rest is just fine. "-piccolo-

lol, the remaping of the reversals did not bother me at all. tecmo revised the whole engine. the characters have better animation, more environmental interaction(also better interaction), free canceling is more prominent, free step dodging is easier, some attack properties have been optimised. more moves, better graphics, delaying strings became more usable do to the fact of having easy reversals, the reversal have been toned down, new characters...etc..etc..
I love both doa2 and doa3, but to me, doa3 is the better game.

"Ps. hyate DOES know what he's talking about tho."-piccolo-

thank you very much..

can anyone explain to me what is EDTEG ?

 

aww, not another DoA vs VF debate.. *yawn* i did'nt really like DoA but i know why i take VF over other fighting games..

well, i perfer VF because it's movement based.. there's always a key toward the game's dashing system which makes learning it abit more fun, and fighting abit more fast paced. To me, flashy moves or strings are not what makes me realise a good player in VF, it's knowing that this person can move, attack, and throw cancel well (i.e sharp anticipating), staying at reasonable health has alot of rules to follow.

to me, VF has an independant way of dealing with every situation, even a game of throwing has entire system of rules to learn, and the fact of canceling each of them correctly makes an everlasting training session.. the high throw & mid-throw are also in seperate columns, where as learning your opponent well or your own character's throw guarenteed situations are also based around your desicions.

charge moves & Staggered opportunities: new to any fighing game is a game of staggers and the opportunity to take advantage of them, learning how to
deal with a foe in these situations are fun to learn but not always easy ... characters having special stagger situated moves (i.e f+p crumple with wolf) makes other possibilities open up, so there are lost of different ways in which you can set yourself up in combos or throws.

making your own combos: there are four fundamental ways or starting a combo.

1> launch
2> crumple
3> topple
4> smack down with feet rising

with each setup requires different rules of how you can hit your opponent or carry on the setup in different ways (i.e low throw on the crumple), in tekken, there is only crumple, bounce, and launch i think, but i'm not sure about DoA.

open / closed stance: this can be a fundamental equasion as to wether combos work or not (i.e wolf's b+p ~ d+p ~ b+p ~ pounce on closed stance i think) with jacky, it may affect how moves show up as (i.e p+kk) so checking your stance is always something to keep in mind during fights.

recovery: this a main aspect of technicallity to the game, TR / QR is not always a safe option..

recovering from a fall is a risky game, depending on what position you land, depends on how you should recover. if you land with you face toward the opponent (i.e from a crumple ~ knee) tech rolling to the side gives the opp a free window to attack mid or low guarenteed, if you fall with feet facing opp, tech rolling to the side gives the opp a free chance to low throw, so you have to anticipate and escape correctly if u QR in any situated, you can get high thrown instantly.

with all this to remember (and much more) during fights, as i said before, staying at reasonable health has alot of rules to follow... that's why i think VF4' s system is is technically advanced over other fighters (although tekken's catching up fast)

 

Hmm...

I had a lot of fun playing DOA2, but always considered it an 'easy' game.

On the other hand I always considered VF to be 'deep'.

Anyway I just got DOA3 with my new Xbox, and the game seems a bit shallow to me.
But I am curious to find out if this game is as'deep' as you pretend...
Can you tell me where I can find some info?