IGN's Cheers & Tears: Fighting Games

Its deep, but i dont feel its a deep and through as the Members of their community swears it is

 

DOA is a better game than SCIV imo.

I also agree wholeheartedly with Berzerk's statement.

 

Please explain why. Please. I would seriously like to know why.

 

I'd go along with that aswell.

 

I disagree, SC4 is better than DOA4.

DOA2 is better than SC2 though lol.

 

I dont know, at the time, I really enjoyed DOA2 on the DC. it had even more elaborate input for holds, like 64G, so i would not constantly hold by mistake like in DOA3.

SC2 was just a letdown for me after SC1. My disappointment was crushing when it came out. I hated SC2, tried to like it so many times but still can't.

 

SC changed from a unique weapon fighter to the most gimmicky fighting game I've ever played. The bonus characters always have serious balance issues and the original roster isn't much better. Siegfried was all I saw online. SC4 really takes the cake because the entire soul gauge system seems tacked on, unpolished, and may have been a good idea if there weren't plenty of other ways to break a heavily guarding character (instead of mixing up attacks or throwing, let's just wail on your guard like a moron for 1,000 swings until we can instant finish!). Every new iteration seems to embrace its button-mashing roots instead of evolving into strategic gameplay.

And sorry, I don't play fighting games for panty expositions. I traded in my copy of SC4 to take $10 off my BB price...

 

While I actually agree with this comment to a certain degree, I still don't see how DoA is better than SC at its worst.

 

I can't really speak for that as I haven't played the newest DoA's, from what I hear, DoA gameplay is at least progressing forward.

 

I see a lot of crying here. So I'll enlighten a few here.

The Metacritic comment is irrelevant. The first thing that matters to a business is MONEY. So it doesn't matter if Madden was rated a 50 or a 90, it made money and lots of it and got the green light for the next itteration. Just like Mortal Kombat DA, Deception, and Armageddon didn't matter that it wasn't critically acclaimed, because it often sold over a million. On the SRK board or eventhubs, you often get snipits of Capcom executive hinting that judging on how X game does, it determines what they will do, what projects they will tackle. For example, Tatsunoku vs. Capcom is coming to the US for the Wii. People want it as a downloadable for the PSN or Live. The capcom guy mentions that while that game won't come for the other two consoles, depending on how it is received on the wii will determine if a new one is greenlighted. HDR had a lot of press and then sold well, MvC2 is green lighted. The SFIV sticks sold VERY WELL, instead of a one shot, limited run, now you have them in stock and you have MvC2 versions and a "girls" version soon to be out. Metacritic only confirms stuff, But VF5 had good metacritic numbers, but selling 40,000 in the first month of both the 360 and the PS3 run indicated it pretty much Bombed in the US and all of a sudden VFR is Mia. That would Never happen if it was SFIV's Dash remake. One benefit of a high metacritic or gamerankings number is that maybe people will buy it in higher numbers the second time around (ie.. Little Big Planet GOY version), or will buy the sequal in high numbers.

Second, the list wasn't that bad at all. HDremix is good, but it is of a game that is 18 years old. IT is definitely not everyone's cup of tea. To me, it feels too old now and I was a BIG time SF2 player back since world warrior. I'll agree with taking out DOA4 and putting HDremix or SCIV, but I guess they didn't want HDremix, SFIV, and MvC2 on the same top 5 list, people might think IGN was on Capcom's nutsacks. With HDremix being the "prequal" to SFIV, they felt, most people would probably prefer SFIV in this day and age. And Judging buy the amout of people listed on SFIV's section on SRK.com vs. Super Turbo's section, I think the theory holds. I love VF, but if people still don't understand why the Hate for VF then you simply aren't in touch with what sells and what doesn't. I sure as hell didn't like SFIV's easy inputs, and they cost me multiple games over the last half year, but I understand why they were inserted. Now compare that to a Single move with K+G then release G within 1 frame input and you get the message. Virtua Fighter is LOAD with oppertunities lost to try to make things accessible why still retaining the depth for the hard core folks.

IGN on blazblue's nutsacks is one thing, but the game had good reviews all over the place. In fact, Blazblue is an example of what Sega SHOULD be doing, lets play a little comparison for example. Blazblue has 12 completely different characters. VF5 has 17 different, sometimes completely, characters. This has NEVER been a negative on Virtua Fighter's part and I alway commend them on this. IN fact, let me do another commending, VF is the most balance of all the fighting games, something that fighters should always seek. No point in having 30 characters, if only 5 are tournament worthy. Blazblue's characters though, have much more "style" to them, much more personality as describe below.

Blazblue has a deep Story Mode, that was actually pretty good. Even the arcade mode, gives you a mini version of story mode's story. VF's arcade mode is devoid of any personality. It's Kumite or whatever it was called in evolution and VF5 is devoid of any personality. It is simply fight computer, get higher rank, rinse and repeat. Blazblue's story mode had some genuinely funny moments, moments that weren't Canon to the story, but still good to see. Characters' personality became fleshed out, Tao, Bang, how could you not love them. VF5, lau is dying, as always, I sure would like to know abit about that. Oh well.

Blazblue has online, PS3 version of VF didn't. Those idiots at Sega kept trying to convince us that it couldn't be done with their game. Basically B.S. to explain why they were lazy. 6 month later, it works fine on the 360. Blazblue's online is smoother in my opinion and more comprehensive.

Blazblue is new, Guilty Gear was niche, so with the rebirth of fighting game, wasn't it a good idea that they included a tutorial DVD. Virtua Fighter might as well be new to the masses, as people felt it was too technical. Hey why not do something different. Nearly everyone who picks up blazblue could do every move on the move list. With or without a stick. In VF, you just accept that some moves on the list you either Can't do, can't do in the heat of the battle (vs. in practice against a standing dummy), can't do reliably enough to use in a real match or whatever. Like I mention, why K+G, release G in 1 frame. What is the point of giving a single move (not even a combo) such an input.

VF5's training mode progressively gotten worse since the VF4 days. While there is nothing to compare to in blazblue since it is new, you shouldn't be regressing with each itteration.

Did I mention the character designs in VF wasn't the best, and throw in no personality since no storyline as well.

Whatelse, The PS3 list was even more on point. No DOA to ruin it, and you got SCIV, the list look pretty good to me.

Anyways, I'm still shock that, in the year of fighting games, in the year since Soul Calibur IV kicked off the new era, Sega hasn't shown any effort to capitalize on it and release VF5R here in the states. They will yet miss calculate again and miss out of all the new people, and potentially make people miss the best VF period. I guess at some point, they will make VF6 either for a new console or the current ones and make the same mistake as VF5 (which is release it when few people have the console and release it LITE) or release it when people have moved on and still never got their name out there to the casuals. That Japan Arcade business better be worth it.

In unrelated news, it took sega 15 years to realize people would prefer a 2D sonic, and now there seem to be one brewing in the pipeline. Pure Geniuses over there.

 

Explain to me what part of SC4's gameplay that makes it that much better then any DOA game. Really.

What do you mean by "progressively"? It went from the absolute best to absolute shit in one game.

Because it makes the move fun to do? It's not like you HAVE to play Akira. Just like you don't HAVE to play Mishimas in Tekken, and how many newcomers can just do EWGFs like that.

Anyway, amateurs pretending to know it all about the game industry and what would/wouldn't sell is a horse well beaten on this forum. Less talk, more play.

 

I see a lot of crying here. So I'll enlighten a few here.

You sure enlighten me there. Maybe you should stop being a Sony fanboy and get on with it, since it reads like you can't do knee consistenly.

 

There are other characters in VF. If you can't knee then don't expect to play mid or high level Akira. Ever. Just like if you can't safe jump or negative edge with maximum consistency in SF2:ST then you shouldn't be expecting to win at mid to high level with T.Hawk. Or if you can't hold TAP with Boxer in Super Turbo (or SFIV) and command the opposite row of buttons then don't expect to be able to openly use his entire move list. Or if you can't kara-throw or parry consistently then expect to hit a solid wall if you're playing as SFIII:3S Q.

If you can't handle high execution characters then play someone with easier or less forgiving inputs.

Look at the reversal window in Super Turbo and High Def Remix. It's one frame at 60fps running game. The timing is one frame specific. Now in SF2, if you factor in button down and up, you have (at most) six chances to hit a button, to get a reversal. So you have six chances to get a 1/60 input timing. But the thing with reversals is, that your window of opportunity is only one frame within the game, and six chances outside of the game.

With Akira's knee, while you have a one frame input execution wise on your controller, yet you can buffer the command within a range of frames within the game. So Akira's knee is not actually a one frame link within the game, even though the command's execution is only a single frame outside of the game. So the timing isn't as tight as people make it out to be because the command can be buffered.

At first I was greatly intimidated by Akira's command list. I was watching the matches of Japanese VF Akira players and couldn't believe how they never missed buffered FC moves or his knee. I picked up Jacky and Wolf instead for a long time. But after a year or of playing heavily, I felt comfortable with all of Akira's moves, from both the 1P and 2P side.

How often do (or did) you see players like Minami or Homestay or Mukki fail at their knee attempts? Now how often do you see top SF2 players fail at reversals? While I would say that the knee is harder than reversals, it's not that much harder, that you can single it out as such a massive execution barrier.

Every game has its tougher commands. The knee isn't really that much greater of an execution barrier compared to ETTEG and SDE hit confirming, or having to constantly be looking at stance, or recognizing MC, mC, normal, guard in my opinion. And Akira is known for difficult commands so the knee is very fitting for him. You think dodge body check is easier than the knee? I myself can certainly use Akira's knee more often than a dodge body check.

Lastly let's look at one more execution barrier in ST. The reversal to build meter and then a second reversal SUPER back-to-back. In this video at 5:00 you see Taira do a reversal d,u+p to build meter (1/60 timing) and then a second reversal SUPER (b,f,b,f+k) at the very next opportunity afterward. That's back to back reversals at 1/60 timing. Now watch the same video at 5:40. Taira does three reversals in a row including two back-to-back. Here's this video at 4:30. Watch Taira do the same thing against Fei.

Pulling off reversals like that in a row isn't easy. It's a major execution barrier. A monstrous execution barrier. So much of a barrier that I don't think I've ever seen anyone do it more than once in a series of matches (let alone one match) other than Taira.

Every game has its tougher executions. If you practice they won't seem as hard.

The knee is easier than you think it is. You are just getting psyched because you read (1 frame) as too difficult. If you actually played Akira often enough I don't think you'd be intimidated by the knee as much as you are now.

 

That SEGA's going down with most of the games they produce isn't new. When did we have the last good Sonic game?

Former SEGA president has more to say on those and why SEGA is failing since the Dreamcast era: http://bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed/qaa-...his-ouster.html

 

Here is a fun activity. Read through Sega's release history in the last few years. You can also look at some ratings. I do hope they don't take Creative Assembly and AM2 down with them.

 

I'm way too old to really care what someone on the internet thinks.

What I care about is the games that I like, one specific genre being Fighting games. I've like them for 18 years now.

So, it ends up being the same thing over and over again. People on other sites mention something bad about VF, and people on the game's main boards go crazy. A member on the boards mention, you know what, It is all about results, and the results are that VF5 didn't sell well. There are many reasons for this, I explain some of them WAY WAY back when the game came out here on the boards. We know them by now. You should use the potential buyers criticism as a means to think of how to improve and not to alienate. In fact, this is often a major problem of the Virtua Fighter series. It tends to alienate. It's very difficult to get local players near where I'm at. Eventually, with me being busy at work, a thin competition, and No online, the game was eventually dropped in favor of some of the other good Fighters that came out in the past year. K+G, release G in 1 frame was just an example, I don't even play Akira. I think the philosophy should be that people should be able to do all the regular moves and then the advance stuff and advance tactics and combos is what should differentiate between the players. Case in point recently at SBO in Japan, many US payers got killed by the Japanese crew. it is not that they couldn't do a Dragon Punch, it is that the Japanese simply were better players. In VF for a lot of casuals, some of the things limiting you is simply the moveset itself. Like I said, Take it anyway you want, but RESULTS is what matters.

Recently KOFXII came out, the actual gameplay wasn't bad, in fact it s descent to good. But the game was EXTREMELY lite. The online Stunk, there wasn't a meaningful arcade mode, and absoulutely no story. It got bad ratings, and Sold extremely poor. At this point, it is fogotten to all but the few diehards.

These examples has nothing to do with Sony as that idiot several post said. SFIV came out multiplatform. VF5 came out multiplatform and was better on the 360. Blazblue came out multiplatform, MvC2 remake, HDRemix, SCIV, KOFXII all came out multiplatform. Tekken 6 will be multiplatform.

As one member presented,Sega's former senior executive even mentioned how things went downhill for them during the development of Dreamcast and how they had different focus. The Saturn lasted a few years and they canned that as well, The Genesis competed well, even was leading at a point, but the minute they got some push back, they pretty much folded on the genesis. Now, they had the idiotic idea of going online only with the dreamcast in 1999 when no where near as many people were online, and the infrastucture wasn't even there. What else has Sega ruined, We know about Sonic, they got a good product in VF, but isn't taking the steps to ever make it gain mass appeal. Whatever happened to that altered beast remake, or the franchise in general. Streets of Rage is dead. They stunk up the joint on Shinobi while allowing Tecmo show them how a good Ninja game is made. Golden Axe stunk, I liked Beyond Oasis on the Genesis, where is it now, Shenmue is left to die, Eternal Champions was actually good, where is it now. They gave up on their Football Franchise even before EA had the exclusivity, NiGHTS2 stunk, Where is Shining Force, and that other RPG they had. Even new stuff like Iron Man was Hideous. I will say though with great Honor that Valkyria Chronicles is one of my Favorite games ever and on the current gen consoles, hopefully they won't mess that up to.

I thought SCI, II, III, and IV were better games than the DOA series. This includes everthing from gameplay, to characters, to story to whatever.

I thought VF4 had the better training mode, if it was evolution than my fault on that, so I guess it wasn't progressive and just straight down, Despite the specifics, you shouldn't be going backwards when you release games.

This is already getting too long and I don't even have the same desire to argue this as I had at the start of writing this.

 

Your argument is so sound and backed with evidence that it must be true!

To top it off you ended with the always effective "this is going on too long I'm tired of arguing" technique. BRILLIANT!

We should all just shut up go back to playing VF like the losers we are