I can't figure out this game and I could use some pointers.

Hey Grapefuitman. I know everyone's like "add me" and shit, but we really need to train. I'm assuming you're on xbox and somewhat local if you were playing against Phanatik. I'm near the same level as you and think we'd benefit from training.

When I first came here and asked for advice, everyone was nice and gave me lots of good info that I didn't understand for shit.. When I go back and read my old posts, it starts to make sense.

We'll practice evading, buffering, wake ups, all the basics. I'll add you and hit you up.

 

Oh man, thanks. Someone else had told me there was a way to see the old wiki a while back, but we never found a link. Thank you.

 

I agree with this point, a very fraustrating feature of FGC sites, though generally unavoidable due to the technical nature of most fighters, my approach has always been to only bother with things that concern me and to ignore that which doesn't in the same way that a horse will chew the grass and spit out the hay, if it isn't related to either of my characters or improving in a specific aspect of the game which is of direct, practical and applicable use to me then I refuse to waste the time.

On the gameplay from the vids: I never judge a player by their level of ability but by their attitude and approach to the game which is always displayed in gameplay whether the player knows it or not; I am far from a high level player, but from my perspective the gameplay wasn't that bad and could be improved upon by simply using more defensive options, maximizing combo damage and using more moves in general to avoid being predictable, a problem I also suffer from

 

I don't really remember I slept through many of my math and physics classes. So i was kinda forced to figure out the stuff later on my own.

First question did you turn on Detailed stats and press some buttons?

Detailed stats will tell you Execution or the speed of the move - how many frames it takes to come out(the primary determinant for priority in VF), Hit - the amount of damage a move does(the secondary determinant for priority in VF), and finally Advantage - the number of frames before you or you opponent can act. So using the example of sarah's flip kick it's execution is 14, it takes 14 frames to come out, Hit= 38, it does 38 damage on normal hit...it'll do more on counter hit , 57, and Advantage when it hits or counter hits it knocks down. When you block it is -26 ~ -27 again. Which explicitly means that your opponent cannot act in anyway for 26~27 frames. No attacking, no evading, no guarding, nothing...nada, nil. That means any move you do that executes in a period of time shorter than 26 frames will hit, again check the Execution read out on the Detailed stats, if it has the range - this you need to check through practice.

So maybe you are a visual learner, a picture might explain things better. Here are a great many pictures moving at a high speed.

Note the bar that moves back and forth between the players. This bar is a visual representation of Advantage.

Don't complicate things all he needs to know is how to add positive and negative integers.....Remember subtraction is just a function of addition.

 

Not in the slightest.

Do you know what this reads like? An adult talking in Charlie Brown. You're comparing something I'm not at all familiar with the same thing in another setting that I'm even less familiar with. I genuinely have no idea what any of that meant.

Could you be less vague?

Yeah, I suck at this.

I don't know what good moves are and 1P has been pretty good to me. It's the only one I really saw any success with because it does hit from a distance and comes out fairly fast considering. Some of the matches I didn't get to record showed me whiffing 6G+P+K while standing next to the opponent, multiple times. Akira doesn't seem to really have any good moves for closing the gap between him and his opponents, except for 1P.

What is that?

Again, even though you stated some specific items, you're still being vague. I'm sure they make perfect sense and sound obvious to any seasoned VF player but, to a new player, it doesn't make a lick of sense because those words don't carry any meaning. Do you get what I'm saying? You can repeat a word as many times as you like but that won't tell you what it means.

Surprisingly, yes, I do know how frame data works. But you all seem to think that it means that I should have everyone's frame data memorized.

Yes, I have.

Believe it or not, since I'm new to fighting games, I'm also new to using an arcade stick. I was trying to do his 3G+P+K (guard break of doom), which hits mid. When I goofed twice in a row, I said "Fuck it, I'll low throw him. Oh fuck, Akira doesn't have any low throws. God damn it! Okay, 66KK." That's exactly what was going through my head.

Because this.

I can't think of any moves that Akira can use to cover distance and I thought he was closer but ended up backdashing even further away on me. 46P is one of the few moves that I know any follow-up juggles to. Just one actually: P 2P 46P.

I was upset because I was actually doing fairly well, got his life down to maybe 10% and had a significant life-lead myself (~75%) when he made a complete comeback and took the round after all.

Did you miss the part where I said I have no idea how to play this game?

Seriously? The entirety of VFDC can't get an offline scene to get going and you're trying to suggest that someone with zero knowledge and experience do it instead?

Not necessarily in person. If only there was a website or something that maybe broke down the game and explained it in language that a new player could understand...

 

Akai, posted a link that explains frame buffer in detail. If you're curious, read it. Ask questions on anything that confuses you.

This is a great opportunity to ask a question to further your understanding. What specifically did he say that you don't understand?

Go into the lab, set the dummy to do moves that you have trouble blocking, learn when to use the guard button. Then let us know what it is you specifically have trouble blocking.

Have you gone through Akira's command training? Go though it again. He has some of the best moves in the game for closing distance. 666P is a great one. 1P is good as well for a surprise attack but is -4 if blocked. That's not terribly unsafe, but you need to be aware of that so you can respond properly if it is blocked.

Go back through his command list and just start playing around with moves. Don't worry about their specific properties just yet. Go and play with them, see what does what. Then ask questions on moves you're curious about.

Hit-checking means "to confirm your attack was successful or not and whether it is safe to perform the following attack" (someone might need to come and clean that definition up a bit).

I'm not entirely familiar with Akira, but using Sarah as an example: She has a canned combo - 6PK (elbow to knee). If I perform the elbow (6P), before I perform the knee, I need to make sure my opponent was hit. If the elbow was successful, then the knee is free as my opponent won't be able to block it. Yet, if my opponent blocked the elbow, I should not perform the knee because my opponent will block it as well and punish me.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Akira's hit-checkable moves.

Like your previous question asking about "hit checking", ask a question. What did he say that you don't understand? What word? What sentence? Ask!

Of course not, no one knows all the frame data for all characters by heart. But, because you know how frame data works, you should be able to go into the lab or watch a replay, turn on the frame display and begin to understand, slightly, why you were punished for certain moves.

www.virtuafighter.com <--- I hear the guys on that site are pretty good at the game...

 

Hey buddy, I'm the Wolf player that played a few matches with you this evening. I recognized your name and thought I'd pop in and try to help a bit.

You definitely used a good variety of moves with both Jean and Akira. I find the tough part of playing a character is breaking down which moves you find truly helpful and separating them from the others that you can kinda set aside until you develop a bit more as a player. Some abilities are definitely easier to understand when to use, and you should pick them up first.

As an example, Akira's elbow, , is an extremely solid basic tool. You said you know a little bit about frame data, but I'm going to be really basic just to make this point. The elbow is a very fast attack at 13 frames, which means it beats out just about every other move besides basic jabs. Also if it is guarded, then it only leaves you at a -5 disadvantage. This means that if someone guards the attack, then they won't have enough frames to attack you back without you being able to guard.

This move is considered safe, which again means that even if the opponent guards it, they cannot punish you for doing it because you'll have enough time to guard afterwards.

You mentioned earlier that there were a ton of frames to memorize, but really a lot can be broken down and simplified. In VF, unlike a lot of other games, a lot of the frame data is universal for certain types of moves. I'll use 4 common moves as an example. Most big launchers are 20 frames, minor launchers are 14 frames, most throws are 10 frames, and most jabs are 11-12 frames. Using these 4 examples, you can put together some simple examples to illustrate how the VF system "works".

VF is a turn based game, and what's meant by that is someone gets a "turn" to attack, then if they don't connect their opponent has a shot. The frames completely support this in a way that I think words over-complicate.

Example: You're playing as Akira. The round starts. You begin with . The opponent blocks and tries to hit you with a heavy 20 frame launcher. You're able guard since your elbow was a safe ability, leaving them at a -15 disadvantage. You punish them with a , which is Akira's 14 frame combo starter, and your opponent has no choice but to eat your punish.

This kind of play is the back bone of VF, and when broken down like this I hope it makes sense to you. Abilities that leave you at a disadvantage less than 10 are generally safe attacks. At -10 you can start punishing these attacks with throws. Once you get to -12 , -15, and higher you start being able to punish with combos.

Krye's post broke down a lot about the game basics as well, give it a serious look. I know it can be very frustrating, but keep at it. I also recommend choosing either Akira or Jean and really immersing yourself in them until you really understand "the system" of VF. Get to know your frames, and try to get a feel on what's punishable and not punishable. Take it slow and I have no doubt you'll be stomping me in the ground next time we play.

 

Just a note to people giving advice- every fighting game is turned base, but the speed of which turns are taken is the biggest difference compared to every other fighter out there.

The core of this game is Tick Throw and Tick Mid(overheads for 2D gamers). In short the guess is, stand to block mid, Duck to avoid throw.

Know the frames of the poke game, meaning P, 2P, Elbow. Block, Hit, Counter-Hit. All three put the person in the receiving end in a different state of text book defensive answers

.Which leads to knowing the frames to know what techniques cuts the guessing game down on defense so you dont have to guess.

Fuzzy Guard: -1 to -3 frames

Crouch-Dash Fuzzy Guard: -4 and -5 frames

ETE/TEG : -6 to -9.

In general terms without knowing frames. Block hit -> Fuzzy, Get Hit -> Crouch-Dash Fuzzy, Get Counter-Hit -> ETE or TEG depending on how you want to deal with the potential mid.Again this is when dealing with P->Mid/Throw mixup

.Strings such as PPPK aren't even guaranteed for all 4 hits. At most 3 hits of it are guaranteed if any of the attacks landed as a Counter-Hit. So if the first P lands as a CH the next two Ps are guaranteed, but the K can still be evaded or blocked. If the 2nd P of this string connects then the following P and K are guaranteed to hit.

True Attack punishment doesn't start until -12 which is The speed of P and 2P.

Throw aren't guaranteed until -10, but they can still be broken assuming you get the right guess.

Again, it's the speed at which this stuff happens that is the biggest hurdle in the game.

I'd suggest cutting down the moves you use for now. With Jean, pick two strings, on that end in mid and another that ends in low. This will force the opponent to guess which one they need to block high and which one to block low.

Pick other moves to poke with even though P and 2P are the best, for variety. Pick one move that is -3, -5, and lastly in the -6 to -9 block as to give you a better idea of how fast your opponent reacts with a counter attack as well as giving you some space to learn proper defense in VF i.e. doing.g two thing at once.

 

This isn't how counterhits work. You'll get some additional frame advantage and damage on counterhit, but this only affects the single strike that counterhit and no more. It can make certain strings on the ground connect when they otherwise wouldn't, but only for the next immediate attack, and of course it is specific to each string.

PPP is a natural combo (a string where all hits will connect after the first) for most characters anyway, so this isn't a very good example.

 

This seems like a great idea for learning vf. Since you really can't know which defensive option to use unless you know what disadvantage you are at, and if you're a beginner you're not going to know much frame data.

I am going to try this on the weekend.

 

Fruitman, I'd say just pick up a headset, find some people there who also have one, and start playing with them. That's the best way of learning I think )

 

This situation illustrates what might be the biggest problem you, and many other people-myself included, are experiencing. Faulty or unreliable execution. Someone once told me that fighting games are 90% execution and 10% mind games. He was speaking specifically about Third Strike and I think it applies to all fighters. So with that in mind you need more practice - we all do. Specifically you should practice, in order or importance for VF.

1. Practice your movement: forward dash, back dash, forward crouch dash, backward crouch dash, evades, offensive moves, jumps, crouch. Then combine some of these into the more complex movements. Stair stepping is a dash(forward, backward, crouch forward, or crouch backward) then an evade(either direction) ex. . Box dashing is a dash, then an evade, then a dash in the opposite direction as the original, and then an evade in the opposite direction as the original ex. . Here is a thread about it. I think movement is the most important skill to learn and understand in fighting games(and actual combat sports such as boxing or fencing and tennis and more). Being mobile allows you to better dictate where and when confrontations take place, it allows you to chase your opponent down or make your opponent chase you. It is generally speaking better to be a moving target than a stationary one. Also, the physical execution of many defensive techniques in virtua fighter stem from movement.

2. Practice your defensive techniques: Blocking, Crouch Blocking, Throw Escapes, Fuzzy Guard, Evasion Crouch Dash Cancel, Evasion Crouch Dash Cancel Throw Escape. People have already explained some of that and some of it hasn't been explained. To start I would begin with the primary three because they are the foundation of the rest and can be used at almost any time. Fuzzy Guard is very important to practice and to understand when it is an option and when it is not an option. Evasion Crouch Dash Cancel, Evasion Crouch Dash Cancel Throw Escape are also important and again it is important to understand when it is an option and when it is not an option. The execution of these techniques are covered in the games tutorial mode. Tutorial #4, #13, #14, #17, #18, #19, #20. If you'd like I can construct more "realistic" applications of those tutorials for you to practice in training mode. Are there any Defensive techniques I'm forgetting guys?

3. Your characters move list: You said you wanted to do Akira's guard break of doom ++ because it hits mid. I think you are a bit confused here. ++ hits hit and causes a stagger not a guard break, I don't even think it is a good stagger. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Akira's Guard break of doom is ++, it also hits high. ++ is the guard break that hits mid. All of this points out that you need to know your characters move list better. It doesn't matter how much you want to do a move if you can't physically do it or aren't sure how the move you want to do is executed. So practice your characters moves. There are usually "Top Ten Move Lists" in each characters forums so go through those and compile your own list of ten or fifteen to start with. Then go through and practice executing them and understanding their properties. What are their ranges? What are their speeds? Do they hit high, mid, or low? Do they catch evades? In one direction or both? What happens when they hit? What happens when they are blocked? What happens when they counter hit? How much damage do they do? I would advise you to pick a character other than Akira because he does have some difficult execution. Goh and Jean are very simple execution characters with short move lists. That said I like vanessa and play her even though she has quite a lot to remember. Stick with the character you enjoy playing the most. If you haven't figured out who that is yet explore.

Before you can learn to understand when to do something you must learn how to do it. There is a time and place for everything. If you can execute all your options then you can explore all your options and explore the game and better understand it.

 

Akira has 3 guard breaker. 6 13 frames, removes high guard and give 15 frames of advantage; 2 16 frames removes high and low guard and give 12 frames of advantage; and the last 3 which is a guard breaker with follow ups that is high with 17 frames of startup.

!off topic! why akira has 2 high guard breaker? can someone explain that design choice to me?

 

Ermargard! I could've swore I've tested this before on normal hit. Just did it right now, and I stand corrected. Too bad I can't edit my post. >_<

Your right about the other strings, but I could've sworn I tested it in PPPK strings.

 

nvm

 

with 2 high guard breaker i mean direction 6 and direction 3 . I don't know why direction didn't showed up in the post since i used the smile menù to insert directions and buttons :/

 

My bad im hella tired

 

All three of them are high guard breaks, is a mid but it doesn't break the guard of a crouching opponent.

 

On my to-do list.

I make a habit of doing almost every time I pop the game in. I still don't think he has great moves for closing space like...

1P's -4 on block, 666P is -5. 1P also crushes highs while 666P doesn't and it also hits from further away while coming out only two frames later (15 v 17).

Oh, I'm familiar with his hit-confirmable moves and their follow-ups and I can get them off just fine in training but I get anxious during matches and mess up their timing. Same thing with Jean's 46P+K on block follow-up. I can get it off 99% of the time in training but throw me into a match and I'm screwed.

Literally all of it. I really do wish there was a resource for VF newbs so I could just check that rather than coming off as an idiot.

I'm sure they good at it, they're just terrible at teaching it.

Here's the problem with that suggestion...

Is there some kind of trick to getting decent at execution? No matter what I try, I'm terrible at it. Hitting diagonals consistently is almost impossible for me. I think trying to get 33P is harder for me than doing Akira's knee. I thought an octo-gate for my stick would be the solution but it didn't help, in fact, I think it may have made things more difficult .



In other news, I "think" I'm getting the hang of the wall and figured out a wall combo that does decent damage (118). Any parts I could change for the better? I'm also struggling to pick up any other combos other than I one I know after 46P which is P 2P (2)46P. The combo page up top is kind of intimidating, especially a lot of the "delay one frame" stuff.


In addition, does Akira have any particularly good tools that stand out? Like if X hits, Y is guaranteed? The only one I know off-hand is 46P being guaranteed after his 6G+P+K guard break, granted, I can never get to hit anyone with the GB in an actual match but still... at least I'm aware of it!

 

So? Being at -4 or -5 isn't terrible. If one can crouch dash fuzzy guard being at -4 or -5 isn't really bad. Granted there are things your opponent can do to punish you for fuzzy guarding and that is just part of the game. If you are worried about that situation I would suggest going to Free Training, go to the menu in CPU settings turn the State to Mimic and Reaction to Guard and counterattack 5. This will simulate your opponent using a mid or a throw after you've attacked, if you crouch dash fuzzy guard successfully you will block the mid and avoid the throw. Now you are back at advantage and life is good.

No and yes. The trick is PRACTICE. It isn't really a trick, it is just hard work and time. You will only get out what you put in. So if you want to get better you have to put in the time. A few things that may help. Slow it down. If you are having trouble hitting diagonals than rather than trying to do it quickly, do it slow. Train your muscle memory incrementally rather than trying to rush things. This will develop accuracy and consistency, what we all strive for. Another thing is remember don't get frustrated, you will make mistakes and you will not want to practice. Hell you will get frustrated, just push past it and you'll begin to see results.
I personally don't like octo-gates but I've always played on a square gate...so that's just me. If you think you need to make adjustments don't be afraid, but don't think they are going to be quick or easy fixes. For example, I've changed my grip. I used to grip over hand now I hold the joystick between fingers and cup the ball. Yes I said it. You perverts can make a Lance Armstrong joke now. The grip change didn't make my execution better immediately, in fact initially it was a curse and I had to stick with it and practice more. I also try to eliminate any unnecessary motions and strive for the most economical motions. I use Input display and Command display in the Display setting to check myself in this regard.