I am sorry, but you have to realize. . .

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207.142.37.228

snitch:bizzuNatch

97-32-22 MWT

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!?

Uh, where's my cat?

=)

 

As soon as I get my ps2 (or xbox, if vf4 makes it to it) and I can finally start contributing something worthwhile besides my idle banter....I would love to become part of that team...I have always believed in leading and changing via example.

 

Well, first of all I am currently away from Massachusetts and my internet access has been limited. Not sure where I should post (althought some people may think I shouldn't) so let me just put a very disorganized reply here.

First of all, I haven't read every post made by Rich in the past but I know he had criticized this site before multiple times. And you know what I didn't disagree with most of his points but often I joined silent masses who simply didn't care enough. (And I know for fact they are out there.)

Let me ask this first: In this thread even Jeff seems to have conceded that this site never have been an all-inclusive site for VF info and, more importantly, NEVER WILL. (Am I twisting the words too much here? He said he never made movelist because someone already did. He apparently had no intention even to upload GLC's. He simply failed to address many of the valid points raised in this thread.)

There is nothing wrong with not being an all-inclusive. But it's plain wrong to cling on to the idea that the site has no need for links.


Let me address some more points.

1. Jeff's exposure to ThoVF apparently is limited to its last, waning days. With all due respect to Dodee, the history of THoVF goes way beyond VF3 and Dodee's contribution. Its infancy coincided with WWW's infancy and it was one of the best website period during this time. And for the most of its history it remained so. And Jeff is apparently oblivious of how closely it worked with RGVA. (Thus it didn't really need a fancy board for the most of its history. Heck, for the most of its history the idea of webboard was a novelty.) It's regrettable that it had to wane and die during VF3 days. But even in its waning days Dodee managed to add unque and interesting content to the site. A good example is the interview he did with Mr. Jeffry Buchanan, ex-AM2 employee . I can't be convinced that the effort Jeff put into VFDC was anywhere near that of Dodee, Lars, KBCat and others put into the respective sites. Again, if he has more important things than managing a video game site, good for him. But it bothers me greatly how he becomes all defensive and even seems to belittle the effort other people put into their respective sites without even being around long enough to know what went before those sites.

2. I know Jeff has designed what he calls prototypes. And here is my long harbored gripe. Who really cares if the BG is magenta or navy blue or prussian blue when there is no content linked from the page? Did anyone care if VirtuaProject didn't have award winning web design? Jeff spent inordinate amount of time going through all these. Who really cares if this looks like Tekken Zaibutsu or Shoryuken.com if all the links are broken. Is it a part of being student of management? Putting all thought into useless details while negelecting what's important? Concentrate on somethings that's actually important. I wanted to say that but didn't care enough to voice it that time.

3. Rich is absolutely right about text info. Even sites like Tekken Zaibatsu rely heavily on plain texts for information. There is no excuse why GLC's FAQ is not avilable from the site.

4. In all honesty I had no ill feeling harbored toward Myke. Rich has none too. And in my post I said I am especially sorry for Myke. But again, my general disappointment toward what's happening with VFDC/VFDC forum extened to Myke and I couldn't help about that. (Insider/outsider culture, lack of organization, etc. General apathy toward update and links.)

Of course I am giving crap. But adding "me too" post in regard to Rich's points is what's needed I don't think I am above that. Those who want flame away. But I am glad some people actually started putting thought into what's needed to improve the site.

 

Re: OMG. .

OMG! all this ickering... "UuNnghghghrgrhrlrr.'..HaHaHAHA,
THIS SITE IS TODAY AMONG THE BEST AND MOST BEAUTIFUL ON THE WEB! period. end of story. Let us all move forward and save the bile for actual battle at arcade. The work load is mind-boggling for even the simplest sites. Some/many of our community have real world obligations. GPAs that must be maintained...bills to pay. Great Caesars Ghost! I miss-spelled Mantis on my little Lion site and even that little itty bitty correction is a pain in the arse! Though all the bile there were a few good suggestions,but, )<>cough <>
sandwiching them in with vitriolic spewings is rude and crude. chill the shite. let's move forward. Excellent search feature makes many fan/FAQ pages possible in near future. Sheesh, VF4 just became available in NA east coast a few short weeks ago. Have a good weekend.;>)
BTW-
http://www.geocities.com/nycat.geo/Lion
has links to VFDC and VP on top of front page now.
Some insight into chibita's movie would be greatly appreciated. A complete move by move thingie is worth 20 arcade games to me. email whenever you visit NYC for competition w/ old man. gg

 

dude,
straight up, what is it you fuck'n want? Thank you sir for being a critic to make my site the best it can be .
Shit, what do you want them to do. dedicate their life a site. I understand they may not put as much effort as YOU would like. but if the true fans of the game are satisfied with whats going on, and the johnny-come-latelies (in a pouty voice) " all i can find anything i want here" , then shit . GO to gamefaqs and/or other "better" sites and find what ye seek. Its that easy. Do I wish there was more crap on here, yes. I can't even post my sexually related topics with VF here, but I can swear street style.
But damn why are you here? (in an eddie murphy white boy voice) "lets see what 's fucked up with this site here, i know there are other better sites, but let me start some shit up with these foreigners here".
I mean , i don't like a hell of a lot of sites, i never complained to them, suggested maybe, but not bitched. And that's what you're doing bitching, not suggesting.
Do you have to be nice about it, no. but you do make the people you address maybe put up a defensive guard by how you address them, not by what you say. I do notice a difference in how people respond to you vs. HYUN, and he 's the one complaining.
So all i'm curious about is , as ed of HG would say, why are you here? you something better then why no go for it and be part of its community. Not that no one isn't welcoming you here, but you obviously aren't happy here.
I mean if I like (lets see how can I not be sexual so that MYKE doesn't kick my ass off), Adam with his nice long , slender and hard style and don't like my cousing limp , short and girthless style, why would i stay with my cousin and complain about what he doesn't have when i know adam can satisfy my needs.

sorry adam,

fag-stino

 

Heh, that was tough to read even for a MADrox post.

The gist of what you're saying is that Mr. Bungle should lay off and stop complaining about what other sites didn't have, right? You think he's bitching but has no point, other than to point out the flaws of other people? And you basically also said that he shouldn't expect people to devote their life to a web site.

I think you're missing a point. You and Rico actually agree: nobody's expected to devote their life to a web site, and anyone who whines that Myke's not doing anything should see that. I think the complaint rich has (and maybe what Hyun was originally saying) is that people who visit a site hate broken promises. If a page claims it will have complete VF information, complete movelists, content on VF1 and VF2, it should have that. If it doesn't, then the webmaster should simply admit "I don't have the time/motivation to do this any more". That's what Kris Amico's small site said when it closed, and I can respect that.

The point he's trying to make is that Myke is working hard on this site and trying to put up the stuff that people are looking for, while in the past other sites have made lots of excuses about why they don't have move lists, or why they can't upload text files, or why they don't have the space for movies. These excuses look like transparent bullshit, they look like someone's covering up for "I don't have the time/motivation to do this anymore".

Myke isn't making excuses, he's just quietly trying to crank out the HTML in between work and a girlfriend (and possibly more school). Lots of people are ready to step up and offer text files or movies, but that doesn't help when one guy is doing 100% of the actual HTML.

Anyway, it's time for me to bow out of this. While Hyun's post pissed a lot of people off, I have to admit that it will probably result in a surge of content from all these volunteers. Nobody wants to look like the guy who COULD be contributing something, but isn't.

 

Everyone here has good points, but seriously, I can`t say I care for Hyun`s or Creed`s opinions about VF3 or VFDC for simply two reasons: 1) They were not part of the active community for the past few years, 2) I obviously am not in awe of their VF3 abilities. Call it whatever sociological B.S. you want, insider/outsider, but Hyun`s assessment of my effort into the site is just as valid as my assessment of others, and he clearly has no idea what has been going on about VFDC for the past few months. Plus, Creed is just an alternative Rich channel.

The big lesson here is that you have to manage expectations. People, it seems, have little capacity to think/appreciate what is, but rather, what they think should be. Had VFDC been launched as "The lousiest VF site on the Internet!" we wouldn`t be having this, uh, "constructive criticism" today.

Man is this discussion getting old.

 

--You think he's bitching but has no point, other than to point out the flaws of other people? ---

no, i say he's bitching. point or no point involved. I'm sorry , street style here, he's just bitching. There is a difference between bitching and suggesting/complaining. He's bitching. its not anymore straightforward than giving a friendly honest suggestion, or angry honest complaint. He's just what I've seen on the streets as someone bitchin about shit. Not helping out (and i don't mean by doing work on the site), just there standing on a corner bitch'n about shit. I'm just being like I am here , when you see someone bitch'n in the street or a fellow co-worker, you just say shut the fuck up. its an urban thing maybe.

-- I think the complaint rich has (and maybe what Hyun was originally saying) is that people who visit a site hate broken promises.---

I understand that. but who did they break promises to. Me , him you?? fuck us. the site does what it does whether we agree or disagree. kind of like your job. you're there and don't agree with everything there, but you ain't doing anything to correct those things, cause you don't have the power or you'd unionise. And I'm merely telling him to unionize if he has that much of an issue. and it isn't just with this topic.
I just get bothered when someone gets straight forward about crap and then get's it back , they dont' like it. Seriously. If jeff/myke said , fuck you people we're doing what we want. we can tell you we'll have this and not have it. why cause we can. we'd probably appreciate that honesty, but if they were being honest as far as trying to do their best at posting items or leaving things out which they though would/wouldn't be necesarry, that honesty isn't what we want to hear. we watn them to be bitches and say we do it like this , or we're lazy so put up with it.
That's my main point, these guys are trying. Maybe their best sucks, and we can point it out. but they are doing their best and they are getting shit for doing their best at their own project.

---- The point he's trying to make is that Myke is working hard on this site and trying to put up the stuff that people are looking for, while in the past other sites have made lots of excuses about why they don't have move lists, or why they can't upload text files, or why they don't have the space for movies. These excuses look like transparent bullshit, they look like someone's covering up for "I don't have the time/motivation to do this anymore". ----

That is what I pointed out. the people who've come to this site routinely aren't looking for the same things the masses are looking for. Maybe those are the people they are trying to appeal to. I don't think they are trying to cover up anything. as i stated earlier. I think they are doing their best , and their best is good enough for some. that's it. they don't meet some standards. Why do they have to lie or cover up anything? are we going to get upset and leave if they are . i'm not. We all know the work involved in a site and the site relects the work put into it. not the effort or desire , but the work and vision. I still say they are doing their best, its just not the best that others envision.

Yes Hyun bothered, people. but it takes someone to give an honest complaint about something to cause a change, maybe. it like you're family, they will always tell you the truth about you, your freinds/cousins may not. Hyun is merely being hones with his feelings.

dumb-stino

 

You stupid fucking brat. Is that all you can do, when you're through rationalizing, to say that "they suck at VF, so their opinions on how a site should be managed, as well as their overall logic and beliefs, aren't valid"? Do you really think this way? Is your head really that FUCKED?

Really, what the FUCK does their skill in VF3 have ANYTHING to do with their valid, well thought out opinions of your shitbag site and their observations of your fucked logic?

> Hyun`s assessment of my effort into the site is just as valid as my assessment of others

BULLSHIT. You tried to compare the old VFDC to sites (and communities) you never experienced in full or in time. Valid, my goddamn ass. Hyun and CreeD might drop off the radar occasionally but they've been around longer than you ever have, and have so much more to base their opinions on than you do.

> Plus, Creed is just an alternative Rich channel anyway.

Fuck you, asshole. Is it so hard to believe that we just share opinions of you and your site? Do you really think it's just me and two, maybe three others who think you and your site are garbage? If all you can do is toss off opinions with well founded explanations because of the poster, then you're scum.

And *I* get slammed as the arrogant one.

> Had VFDC been launched as "The lousiest VF site on the Internet!"

When you sent your first announcement of the site, ASKING PEOPLE TO SEND YOU MONEY and a with fucked up membership system (I'll have to dig up the email, it's a classic example of Jeff-tardation at its most pure form), I think we all knew where it was headed.

 

Know what? I now regret the fact that I made the VFA public, and that all the text I worked hard to collect is gonna be on this site.

Fuck you, fuck VFDC. Take off ALL of the (rsw) and (glc) .txt documents uploaded so far, don't upload any of the others. I'm sick of this shit, sick of Jeff, that mindless brat asshole. I'll find someplace else to put them, if at all.

I don't know why I tried to make it better, through contributing as well as arguing my opinions. It was never worth it.

 

--- Know what? I now regret the fact that I made the VFA public, and that all the text I worked hard to collect is gonna be on this site. ----

Again, what do you want? you worked sooo hard for everyone and no one is sucking you off. ( though i would be the only on e that would ). Rich is the best , thank go we have him.
Rich thank you for everything you have contributed and sorry that I, at least, didnt appreciate all your hardwork.
Because i'm used to getting fingered all the time, i;ll be the first one to submit to your needs.
let jeff and them stay on the high horse that is their site and me just taking facials from you. I'll take it. But i just hope you can take the same shit back.

Why don't you tell why you tried tomake it better?? seriously, what did you have to contribute , that jeff/myke or anyone in any site didn't take advantage of? I'm not picking fun, just questioning your comment? This site could have been everything you wanted it to be, yet I guarantee , someone else would have fouond a problem with it and had some of their own legit reasons.

knife-stino

 

Only one thing I wanted to clear up,
no, i say he's bitching. point or no point involved. I'm sorry , street style here, he's just bitching. There is a difference between bitching and suggesting/complaining. He's bitching. its not anymore straightforward than giving a friendly honest suggestion, or angry honest complaint. He's just what I've seen on the streets as someone bitchin about shit. Not helping out (and i don't mean by doing work on the site), just there standing on a corner bitch'n about shit.

If dude's bitching without helping out, but you don't mean helping out on the site, what do you mean? Where else is he supposed to help out? Is he gonna feed Myke's cat? Rich isn't bitching without helping out, Myke's spanky new VF3 section is based on the VF Archive. And we all know who's responsible for that right?
Also, That's my main point, these guys are trying. Maybe their best sucks, and we can point it out. but they are doing their best and they are getting shit for doing their best at their own project.

Maybe you've got a point there, the site maintainers don't really have an obligation to do squat. Putting up anything at all is more than they really HAVE to do.
So if people's best sucks, why the tirade? Rico's just pointing out whose best sucks and how hard.

 

Jeff, again you fail to get your facts straight.
I have hundreds and hundreds of posts on RGVA dating back to January of 1996. You're the one who's been out of the loop. Go do a google search, you'll get 75 pages of results.

And as for me being an alternative version of Rich... it's true he and I see things on the same wavelength most of the time. On the other hand, I'm fixing to bitch at him for his "destroy all my content immediately" post. I'm sorry to say it here, but it was childish when GLC did it, and it'll be childish if he does it. I hope he's just venting.

 

-- If dude's bitching without helping out, but you don't mean helping out on the site, what do you mean? ---
-----Rico's just pointing out whose best sucks and how hard---


what i'm saying is, his approach isn't constructive or helpful. it makes the people he's addressing setup a guard. I don't need a guard since he isn't addressing me, but he is coming off as a bully, not a friend or even stranger. the other guys on the site happen to be a bit to nice to his in-your-face approach, but he does it cause he can. I'm a very nice person, ask anyone, but because he can, i can confront him from the outside in his same brash style but a little more hardcore. He can go off at the mouth, and i'm just dishing it back. He gets vulger, i get ghetto. it's all about his approach. just sitting the bitches ass down where he thinks he can talk to anyone anyway he wants without any repercussions, yeah freedom of speech, but also be ready for a reaction.
I've dealt with too many people of his style on and off the net to know what i'm talking about. I've shut up and let them go at times, but no, I think he's wrong for his approach. I mean he knows these guys and how hospitable and forthcoming they and he treats them like the bitches that they're not.
Maybe I'm used to seeing language like he used it as confrontational, and if thats the case i'll eat my own shit (not that i haven't tried already), but i'm ready for anything, just making sure he is.

loose-stino

 

I talk the way I do out of pure frustration from having to deal with these retards for the last few years. I just don't give a fuck about the language I use anymore; they're not deserving of any politeness.

And so you use can nasty language, as well - you can become ghetto. What the fuck do you want, a goddamn trophy? Get over yourself, Faustino. Any retard can troll. And my asking Mike to take down the stuff I wrote had nothing to with taking a flame from some ignorant twit who has no clue about what the fuck is going on here.

What have I tried (emphasis on tried) to contribute? Go to ftp://vf.dyndns.org, look in the VF Archive dir. There's about 2 GB of VF material there. I compiled and organized it all. Anything in the text dirs with (rsw) is original text by me. And that's just the orginal VFA release - as it stand now it's about 6.5 GB.

Why do I try to make it better? Why not? There's all of this great shit out there, but Jeff has always squealed like a stuck pig whenever asked why he never bothered - and I did ask politely, at first. There's about 16 MB of text in the VFA, and in one much flamed about instance, it took weeks and raging flamewars to get Jeff to upload just ONE fucking document 12kb in size containing TFT combos that I compiled (to say nothing about how he wanted to "improve" it - i.e, call it his own). I stopped being polite around that time. If it was that much trouble to upload just one 12kb file, what the fuck does he deserve any credit for.

Someone could talk all day long about all the work Mike does now, and how he's in charge now, but in the end, Jeff will take all the credit, and I'm really wondering if I want to associate myself at all with a useless brat asshole like him.

 

Well, credit is given to Rich for putting the VFA together. Credit for content, however is given to the various members of the English speaking VF community who created those works that were put into the VFA. Or at least that's how it should be.

Additional content credit goes to Rich for at least his Option Select breakdown for VF3, his posts on usenet and VFDC, his Kage Combo list, and whatever else he created as a primary source.

Perhaps the credit establishes who is responsible for at least denying where information is put, but I'll leave that matter up to whoever is actually directly associated with whatever is in question. Point being, I don't know if Rich can deny the whole VFA from being put on VFDC. But that's up to whoever's directly related to the matter.

Regarding Rich and posting in communication. I think Rich is a great guy, most people here know that. I don't necessarily oppose his logic, it's usually valid. However, I sometimes wonder if he's having problems communicating on this forum if the only people that seem to understand him (or are not a an idiot by his response to them or whatever) are those that consider him a good friend or associate or those that chat with him on IRC.

I feel I should point out to you that it is not too difficult to "perceive" that credibility takes some form of toll when we get CreeD or the Toronto Crew or someone from the "old VF2 days" being the people who defend Rich or jump on what might seem like a bandwagon of beating someone else down verbally.

Again, I'm not dissing Rich's logic, nor the "old VF2 vets," nor whatever you guys post. I'm just pointing out that it's easy to dismiss certain members here as a form of clique and as such, subject them to a category of bias and state of being unreasonable, etc... In addition, some might wonder if all the convincing and demand for support is on #vfhome or just built in over kinship as opposed to as a response to the forum alone.

On a final note, this is not a perfect world, making expectations on reality without a decent amount of flexibility is only asking for disappointment. If you really feel the need-- do it yourself, if you've failed-- don't blame me. I can only appreciate what's there, no use in wasting my time bitching about something that isn't.

-Chanchai

 

Arguments aside, I'm personally happy that Rich made the VFA public. Lots of great stuff on there. So I hope you don't regret it totally because you made at least one dude happy.

 

Thank you sir..flaming is making me a little twisted. I'd like to think that most people do actually appreciate it (at least, the ones that actually recieved it..arg).

I also have to clarify something that Chan brought up - I didn't say that I'd want the VFA pulled from VFDC. I can't even ask to do that - I don't own *anything* on VFA save for what I've written. For the 1012901863718 th time, for those that don't get it: I just put it together.

 

---- I talk the way I do out of pure frustration from having to deal with these retards for the last few years. I just don't give a fuck about the language I use anymore; they're not deserving of any politeness. -----

O.k. see, now i get an understanding to your frustation, but not a justification. why can't you just ignore them. I think in this case ignorance would be a bliss. if you try and try and try, and no results .. Chanchai is right, why even bother after a certain point. you're just killing yourself. my sympathies. truthfully.

---- And so you use can nasty language, as well - you can become ghetto. What the fuck do you want, a goddamn trophy? Get over yourself, Faustino. Any retard can troll. And my asking Mike to take down the stuff I wrote had nothing to with taking a flame from some ignorant twit who has no clue about what the fuck is going on here. -----

No trophy needed, just your continual frustation. I'm merely dishing your shit back to you. Then you can give me my trophy if we ever meet. this will be just like your quote of god-eater , where he doens't see why we have to be cordial. because ignorant twits really need those things to feel good. Is it my job to give you a feel of what others feel when they read your vulgar postings? no, I do it for the same reason you do, because I can. There ain't shit I can do to stop you and vise versa. I never use nasty language, unless its describing my sexual acts, which is why myke deletes my posts. But I think i'm the only one that does give you shit for how you act, in a not so nice way. everyone on here is. "oh rich you're pretty upset", or "thanks to keeping the language minimal", fuck that. they should just say " shut the fuck up, your opinion is noted , now what the fuck are you gonna do about it".
I don't deny chancai / creeds opinion of you. You most likely are a great guy. it just doesn't seem like it to people who don't know you.
And yes chanchai/rich, i'll be just as tenecious defending your ass if you were being dogged for your opinion. But i'm merely throwing attitude back.
Maybe my prize should be the chi-crew / NYC / omaha crew showing up at gathering and giving me a gang bang as they vf.
Yes, Rich, despite what you may think, i'll let you do me too.
Actually I'm willing to wager. Wait I better not, Myke 'll kick me off again.

sorry-stino