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Like Plague said, the numbers are base on the 10-keypad on the keyboard. So 4 = back.

 

i think what is confuseing me is the video of pai "Despite the disadvantage, Pai's 2_4P beats out the opponent's low punch." but when i watch it i dont see the stick moved back.

http://www.mycheats.com/view/section/19322/19283/virtua_fighter_5/ps3 half way down the page

 

I think what's confusing you is that the video is mis-captioned.

The video shows

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif hit, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif launch, combo,

not 2_4P aka /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

The canonical place to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif hits normally -see the vf4evo tutorial for pai.

Theres also some old Cappo Pai videos on youtube tha you may find useful : http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cappo+pai&search=Search

 

The move in the video is 2_6P not 2_4P. You'll see in the file name of the video that it is 2_6P. I can see why it can be confusing because of the caption below the video.

 

ah ok thx guys i understand now , and thx for the links i go check now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Y'all are a lot more humble than the guys on TZ so thanks for the help. But to clarify something I have a situation I would like to present:

Say somebody throws out an attack that is -12 frames on block(i.e. it takes them 12 frames to get back to a normal stance before you do). And you have an attack that has 10 frame startup, so you can attack your opponent and he can't do nothing about it since he hasn't returned to a neutral stance where he can block.

Thats a common setup in Tekken and I want to know if I can apply the same "frame data theory" to this game.

 

i need a refesher on frames but yeah you will hit them maybe a counter hit?



really need to review frames...

 

Thanks for the compliment - I think VFDCers take pride in being humble.

The frame situation you describe applies to VF. If you block a move that leaves your opponent at -12 and you have a 10 frame punch, your punch is guaranteed. In this case, your throw is also guaranteed (although it can be escaped).

You will get a minor counter hit from this (abbreviated mC).

If you wait a few frames (like 3) to start your 10 frame punch, or start a bigger attack like elbow or knee right away, and your opponent tries attacking, you will score a major counter hit (abbreviated MC).

 

What I did when I started playing VF4:Evo was to look at Sarah's frame data on this site, and figure out "flowcharts". If you ever did these in school it's basically the same thing. Look for strings of attacks that leave you at advantage, and see what moves you can follow with.

For example, if Sarah hits Akira with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, she has +5 frame advantage over Akira. Akira has a 12 frame /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and a 12 frame low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, so I will look for mores that can beat Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs.

Sarah's Elbow is 14 frames. At +5, I can consider my Elbow to be 9 frames (14 frame move - 5 frame advantage = 9), which means if I hit Akira with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and he tries to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif me back, my Elbow will beat his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif by 3 frames and I'll get a Major Counterhit (MC).

Sarah's Switch Kick is 17 frames. At +5, I can consider my Switch Kick to be 12 frames (17 frame move -5 frame advantage = 12), which means if I hit Akira with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and he tries to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif me back, his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and my Switch Kick would trade hits. But the rule is that in a trade, the more powerful move wins. So my Switch Kick is a valid followup after I hit with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

 

I have an entire book of set-ups for feng in T5R, so I guess doing one for lion won't be much more difficult. And are throws actually seeable in this game? How long is the startup animation for throws, and how large is the break window?

EDIT:

What is the fastest startup in this game?

 

I made a mistake. I meant 2_6P. Stupid Chanchai...

I am really sorry for all the confusion this caused some people. I fixed my original post.

 

Like Tekken, you start off with a bit of distance in VF. Generally the fastest startup would be a high punch (low punch as well). However, it'll only land if the opponent is trying to attack you too.

Lion's u+P+K is good if you think opponent is going to try to backdash (backdash has a number of frames before it can be turned into a block). It's risky though, so if it ever whiffs or gets blocked, plug in throw escapes around the time your opponent would do a throw.

Most throws are seeable and technically you can plug in throw escapes on reflex. But there are safe windows to plug in throw escapes (like when you're stuck in recovery or you're stuck in ARM when you tried to dodge), so learn to plug them in then.

The exception is that VF5 brought back 0 frame throws, but I am honestly not good at explaining those. There's a thread near the top of the dojo thread that goes into 0 frame throws and it explains it far better than I could.

And if you want to throw escape on reflex, it's a decent skill to have if you're that sharp. Some players like Yosuke do it quite a bit.

And yes, like Tekken it's good to write up personal flowcharts. I'd draw up flowcharts to cover normal hit, blocked, staggered (if it's mid), and MC. I would also draw up some flowcharts that come from guaranteed high punch situations.

-Chanchai

 

In VF4, high /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is either 12 frames, or 11 frames if you're playing one of the girls, (14 frames in Vanessa's Defensive Stance). All low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs are 12 frames for everyone. Throws are typically 8 frames, although Sarah's Flamingo catch throws are longer. There are probably other exceptions as well.

In VF5, standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif frames are much more varied. Check the frame data lists on this site for individual characters. Throws are now 14 frames.

It takes something like 6 frames to duck, meaning that your opponent is not ducking until the 7th frame. So in VF4, if you establish as little as +2 advantage, you can throw without them ducking under it, although they can crouch dash to enter crouch 1 frame faster. At +3 advantage, they can no longer crouch dash under your throw. In any of these situations, all they can do to beat your throw is attack back or throw escape, but if you did another attack instead (especially a mid such as elbow), you'll get a Major Counterhit. These situations form the basic Nitaku (two choice guessing game) of VF4.

In VF5, Nitaku doesn't start until around +8 frame advantage, since throws are now 6 frames longer in execution.

 

In VF4, the heavyweight's (Wolf and Jeffry) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif come out at 13(f)rames.

Vanessa's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is high and comes out at 10(f)rames. {fastest attack in the game}

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs are 12 frames for everyone.</div></div>
In VF4 and VF5, Lion's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif comes out at 13f; everyone else at 12f.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In VF5, standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif frames are much more varied. Check the frame data lists on this site for individual characters. Throws are now 14 frames.</div></div>

VF5 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif stats
---------------------------
Eileen, Pai, Sarah's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif comes out at 10f. Vanessa's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is 12f but her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif comes out at 9f.

Aoi, Jeffry and Wolf's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif comes out at 12f.

Everybody else's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif comes out at 11f.

VF5 throw stats
------------------------------
Throws come out at 12f if the opponent is active(starting or finishing an attack). If opponent is static(not attacking or recovering) they come out at 0f.

 

Anyone going to evo for VF5?