HAH HA! Jacky trick! Easy! Half their life!

"But, it's not like wolf's knee, P, b+P, pounce is hard"

well perhaps, but for this to connect, the knee requires a counter hit opportunity, without it u could lose about 3 quarters of the damge.

 

honestly, i'm just trying to help then CreeD flames me!
god it's just some help!

 

oh yeah...
i'm just trying to mention an easier alternative to attack breaking than the god damned fuc**** knee.

 

or maybe not.
It works without counter. Without the counter, do don't lose "3 quarters damage", you lose 15 points, or 7-8%. So the combo goes from 44% damage to 41% damage.
It's still stronger than any of jacky's knee combos, and requires less thinking (works up to anyone but HW, either stance).
Jacky's knee is no more unfair or powerful than wolf's, jeffry's, sarah's, or akira's. His beatknuckle-backfist is almost the same move, except beatknuckle comes out a tiny bit faster and recovers a tiny bit slower.

 

Being helpful means being honest.
Lau fists asks "how can I tell when jacky's going to kickflip"
You said "well jacky moves forward a little bit" ... which makes it sound like you're saying "just dodge it when you see jacky move forward a little bit." - that's BS, you can't dodge a kickflip with reflexes alone unless you know it's coming. If you knew it was coming, you wouldn't need the reflexes anyway, just timing.

You think I'm flaming you? I've been reasonably polite. If it seems like I follow you around, picking on every post, it's because you make 10 new posts every day and a lot of them have wrong information, information that might lead to bad habits in a newbie. Is an 84 point Kage TFT combo useful? Sure, if it's a true combo. Is an 84 point TFT combo that can be techrolled helpful? No, because while I tech roll, you're 20 feet in the air whiffing a kickflip, and I get to rape you when you land for free.

Similarly, if for some crazy reason someone tried to dodge jacky's kickflip on reflex by watching his feet or something, that isn't helpful because they're going to get nailed with the kickflip every time. Normal human reflexes aren't good enough to spot a kickflip in the early frames and then dodge it on reaction.

Anyway - I apologize if I'm being a dickhead. I only shoot down posts with false information - I didn't have anything bad to say about your akira knee combo and I'll admit that the f,b+P+G --> kickflip can nail a rising attack for a lot of damage if you know the rising attack is coming. You obviously know some stuff and want to share it, and that's cool... just double check before you say something will work "every time" or is "guaranteed"...

 

but without the counter hit, the b+p totally misses, so are u telling me that a ~ is more damage than any of jacky's combos? surely not with a guaranteed kickflip envolved.. it would'nt make much sense!

 

First, why don't you check your facts before posting something?

Twice now you've said the combo doesn't work without a counter hit, and twice you are wrong. Without a counter hit, knee, P, b+P, pounce works on Aoi, Pai, Sarah, Vanessa, Lion, and sometimes Shun.

If you use b,f+P+K instead of the knee, the combo works on Shun and Kage in closed stance. For Kage in open stance, you can use b+P, pounce. For Jacky, shrm->b+P-> pounce. For Lau, bf+PK, b+P, pounce will hit in closed stance as long as you're not too close.


So my point is that the combo works on half the characters in the game without a counter. Even if it did not, what's your point? How often does a knee hit when it's a not a counter, and the opponent is just standing there? Before you say "what if you interrupt during a throw" ... that's a counter - it does more damage and floats higher than usual. I tested vs. Lau's repeated P+G throw attempts, and I got knee, P, b+P, pounce for 97 points.

I forgot what the original point of your/my post was. Wasn't this discussion about combos that are big damage and very easy? Wolf's knee combo certainly qualifies.

 

I must agree that Wolf has a wide array of reliable and flexible heavy damage combos. You've got a sure 1/4 life gone even in the worst case scenario ( i.e. crouching mC/normal ). , , , is just ridiculous. So easy to execute...even have a choice about pouncing or doing a pickup ( + ). When in doubt of float height for your , you can always convert to +, | knee/ss | m-SH.

Jacky hating usually ends when you start to actually play with him as your character. He's not my main by far but it gave me the insight to understand how to deal with him. He's a very efficient char. with some good priority/power. People should recognise that and allow themselves to study him in order to defeat him. Complaints about his advantages only makes people's skill cultivation stagnate. Hating impedes your growth...

 

Agreed. Every character has a brick-wall type move that is tailored to crush scrubs. Studying stats, or movies, or asking someone better will give them the trick to defeating these moves. Until they realize this, they will die to jackys who continuously do elbow-backfist, or laus who elbow-palm and df+PPP, to shun di's who low kick and backdash, to sarahs who make you block flamingo starter and go into standing K's.... etc etc etc. Wolf doesn't really have a brick wall, but he makes up for it by hurting you a lot every time he guesses correctly.

Hey, as something that might make this thread kinda useful, what's everyone think of the way japanese ranking lists consistently put jeffry ahead of wolf, and in many cases in the top tier. Agree/disagree?
I used to think wolf was on top, statistically he looks pretty strong. But jeffry has several canned combos specifically designed to set up throw guessing games, and it works pretty well. I was trying to find a wolf equivalent to ff+P,P guessing games or df+P,P games... he doesn't have one, and it sucks. You're pretty much stuck being reactionary about throws and MC-oriented with knee/shrm/HCB+P. The knee/shrm combo hurts enough to convince an intermediate player to block long enough to eat a twirl or KS, but a stronger player is less vulnerable to this.

 

Well, I actually created a Jacky in order to learn him, and I
will admit that my bias has to take a backseat to what the
character has to offer. Actually, considering most of my
personal technique is JKD-based, I found Jacky's movement
system to be quite familiar. In terms of some of the rediculous kicks
and things you see CPU Jackys pulling out, most high-level humans
don't seem to play that way. Jacky's hand techniques are
realistic and his spinning low and mid kicks look decent. Because the
autoparry is pussy, I try not to use it, but I did interrupt with a follow-up
backfist when I caught someone with it by accident. Pretty nice.

So do I conclude that the character is bullshit, even if it doesn't have
to be played bullshit (kickflips!)? Jacky is annoying-looking, but so is
Lion. Technique-wise, I could get into some good grounded Jacky...
I'll have to keep experimenting. I picked up Jeffrey for the same reason,
just to see what I'm missing. Anyway, Mister White is correct...any character
can seem like they are too powerful if you cannot figure them out. It should
be obvious...

 

generally, when i first got the game, i couldn't handle his level mixing.
it is definately the best thing to learn them. if you like them, continue. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Wolf Guessing Game

Guessing games with Wolf :

<font color="white">Game 1 </font color> :

-> + ( Blocked by opp. to cause stagger ) :
- Setup : the obvious continuation is to do so your opp. is already conditioned to block low because he knows you have frame advantage. This is where, instead, you , , to turn around quickly by using the punch and -canceling your kick to move you forward/close to your crouching opp. ( your safe to do this uninterrupted because of the aforementioned frame adv. ).

- Follow-ups : I usually run these options in a cycle in order to condition my opp. until he figures out my tricks and then it becomes truely a guessing game.

1 = + ( stagger ), , , , ++

2 == Now your opp. knows that you can low throw him but is still aware of your so doesnt want to block high and therefore opps to interrupt the throw attempt with a -> ( opp. opting to block low again ) + ( stagger ), , , , + -> low punch cut will let him know that his most reliable/quickest move is void.

3 === The opp. should now be conditioned to block high -> + ( stagger), , , , throw. ( Your throw can be interrupt by one of his moves ).

4 ==== If 3 was succesful, the opp. will dread playing a blind game with Wolf. His last option is to dodge. This last sequence should go as such ( feel free to variate as part 4 is just my personal template ) -> + ( stagger ), , , , +, Throw/Knee/SS.

5 ===== Now just go back to doing or backwalking and doing .

The opp. now knows your options so you truely have a yomi game on your hands everytime + gets blocked. And Wolf definetly has the advantage.

<font color="white">Game 2 </font color> :

-> ( force crouch )
- Setup : should be immediately followed by + ( which will force crouch him again if he tried to get out of the initial , which usually happens as they dont want to get low thrown ) into low throw [ takes off around 60~55% damage off ++ ].

* Ill add follow-ups for game 2 next post...

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

v-nice stuff misterwhite, i never thought to use a low throw after the pkg, i normally use a FC df+p for chance of another staggered opportunity, then go into a f+p ~ low throw / b+k+gk. the good thing about the b+k+gk (or knee) is that if the opp techrolls to the side, u can get a guarenteed b,f+p or mid kick for more crushing damage /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

EDIT: out of common interest, i also found that the most damaging combo with wolf without a pounce is 91 pts!:

MC knee ~ pg ~ pg ~ shlrm (so far only tested on lei)

sheesh, so basic yet so damaging /versus/images/icons/shocked.gif

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

Nice combo on lei. Nice follow-up with for another stagger. The variations of strikes on +, , , should definetly include the screw shot ( HCB+ ) and .

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

speaking of nice wolf combos, I just now figured out you can kill people with just three b+P's under the right conditions:
b+P, d+P, b+P, pounce... works on LW anytime, all mids in open stance.
That's kinda spanky. And to think most people waste their b+P with a simple pounce /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

Yeah, its a nasty combo. Need to update that Wolf FAQ...

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

LOL, yes, it's a good combo, but i've been using it for leik decades now (actually a fundamental part of my wolf play).. but hey, sorry i never posted it b4.

just to sumerise:

b+p ~ d+p ~ b+p only works with a short pounce which means df+p (mabye u+k, but still may whiff while the opp rolls)... it has a guarenteed chance of a ground pick up too, the timimg for the low punch is surprisingly strict, u have to wait a couple of frames after the b+p to get it out correctly, then activate the second b+p straight afterwards.

this also makes me wonder if the knee ~ p ~ b+p ~ u+P is guarenteed, in training mode, the pounce does'nt connect as a combo, only u+k or df+p so i think the opp has some time to mash the buttons and roll before the u+p connects... am i wrong? please prove this.

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

also, i also found an interesting 96 damage combo, but i'm abit iffy if the last hit is guarenteed coz i can't tell if the opp hits the ground before the last hit or during it.

MC FC+ ~ + ~ + ~ FC+p

anyone wanna give it a try?

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

Hey are you on the PS2? If so you can press start, press X to get into CPU settings, then go down to detailed settings. From there change "recovery" to towards/away from screen and "getting up" to whatever you like.
Now you can easily see if any combo in the game is tech rollable.

To answer your question:
Yeah, it's not a combo. Bummer. For 81 points you can do either f+P crumple --> m-QCF+P or f+P crumple --> b+K+G,K.
I tested vs. aoi just to be sure.

 

Re: Wolf Guessing Game

Knee/SS, , , is non-techrollable. No combo that includes a pounce at the end registers the pounce in the total damage on ps2. But its still a combo if its non-escapable.