Good Games Thread

Can you describe more details about "abare = unsafe if your opponents defense is good"?[/size]

Pending......

 

You have it backwards. Abare is unsafe if your opponent's offense is on point. You'll get CH'd all day long.

 

I'd agree with the way ultra phrased it. Against opponents with bad defense, they can't effectively (and consistently) guard my quick offense. You have to have the defense to keep from getting steamrolled, then it becomes a question of transitioning to offense.

Case in point: i can't hardly beat the really good defensive opponents on here (like GT and Konjou), but I do very well against the players who are good, but good because of their offense (rather than their defense).

-of course, this explanation might be moot anyways, since i think the demarcation b/w the "good" and the "great" vfdc players is that the good ones have mastered the offensive side of the game, and the great players have mastered both offensive and defensive.

 

...and you play Lei Fei who defies the laws of VF (kidding....partly)

 

These days I play Sarah. I've been advised to play more offensively, and been told that Sarah is an offensive character.
I believe it, judging by her almost complete lack of reliable defensive tools.

I used to play Aoi and I liked to use her reversals, but apparently most Aoi players just keep attacking non-stop thanks to their cancels. So I guess that she's not a defensive character.

I find no satisfaction in being aggressive. I'd much rather display my skills through defense and reaction.

So is there any character that is seen as a defensive character?

 

It's ben said already, but i'll say it again lol.

I think it's more of the fact that some characters DMPK move saves a player from having to try and do the non-attacking defensive options. It seems some DMPK's are like a super evade x2 no matter how deep in dis-advantage one is. And that right there is where the challenge is. So you mix that with P/2P and throws and you've got a hek of a lil battle for yourself fighting against this style.

Since the DMPK (for some characters) is a crazy good defensive move to avoid most attacks, plus it being an offensive attack at the same time, it makes you second guess your offense and wait for the DMPK. Which in turn leaves you standing there blocking and set up for getting thrown. Then you have the P/2P to deal with which is the fastest attack in the game and will stuff you when you wait for the DMPK, but it doesn't come out so you try and attack only to be stuffed by the P/2P cause you wasted time/frames waiting for the DMPK.

It's the DMPK that makes these players that abuse it on cue and randomly at the same time so strong cause you can't properly punish them for being abare, and in return for trying to punish them, you get hit instead. Even though it's cheezy, it seems to work a hek of a lot better than fuzzy or ETEG. And like you say, it works so why not?

If it wasn't for the DMPK that some characters have, it'd be no problem running through em. Cause if one knew how to properly punish attacks and they didn't have DMPK to fall back on, cats would be getting put to work in that corn field.

I can't hate on the P/2P though. Even though I rarely use it myself. High level players (in the Japanese vids) use it like it's going to be taken out the next game sometimes lol. And why not? Why should one risk using a slower move only to be counter hit? One can use it a lot and be sporatic with it to make it a very effective move.

For the record, i've never played Addy, or don't remember. If I did it was a long azz time ago.

 

Akira imo. I've never used Goh, but i've read he is too.

 

Un-Fucking-Believable!!!

 

Your D needs to be good to play Jeff.

 

If you agree with Ultra, then you may not know the definition of abare. It means "attack from disadvantage." If your opponent often defends when they have advantage, then they probably don't know how to play the game. In real VF, there is no reason for me to defend against an abare player when I have advantage. I just need to use the biggest attack for which I have frames to execute. CH. Yellow Flash. You float. I win.

 

ggs man.

You place your moves real well, and you also make good use of situational moves. That's why I recommend Lion, cause you could take him pretty far playing like that. You'll miss being able to steamroll in damage though.

It was super laggy at the beginning but it calmed down afterward, but it still wasn't better than it was the other day for us, so I think the connection can be better.

Jacky's backdash game in open stance is real good. You did good job nailing me with moves that reached at some points. 6K with Eileen might actually be the best answer in the matchup though, for it because it's kick.

 

This really looks as if you wanted to praise certain players' defense, cause it doesn't make sense in any other way.

Any player you probably have a very hard time dealing with, I can almost guarantee you they know the character matchup really well with their character vs your best/main, Lei Fei especially. In addition to having handle on how to do the game's defensive stuff.

People can't really consider themselves any good in this game, if they can shut down a player that has no idea how to even combat the character they're using at all.

There's a great number of players here, that can do stuff like ETEG, TE, fuzzy, reverse nitaku, great placement of moves, hitchecking etc, so their defense is also pretty damn good too, but they just lack the experience and knowhow to battle using their character against other characters, cause the knowledge isn't spread or they don't play the game that much. The difference is that they can get steamrolled in a matchup against a character that's using stuff that is completely foreign to them. I bet you if players like Jerky or Maddy, knew about how to battle specific matchups in VF5, they'd demolish.

Yo, I will get hit multiple times, by a beginner Lei Fei whenever he is on the offensive. Is this guy a better player? Am I a beginner in this game? No to both.
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ggs to AkiraZero.

And to further my point SMB, just by playing AkiraZero the other day, I FINALLY learned how to better utilize Sarah in the Sarah vs Akira matchup, while playing vs AZ. When learning a matchup, it's all about not only what defensive tools you might be better off using, to limit your opponents options, but also offensively what moves you should be doing, to limit your opponents possible rewarding options.

This is why if your offense is better, than it WILL beat abare. If you make use of your advantage properly in a given matchup with your character, then you effectively wipe out your opponents choices of moves they can strike with, making them totally predictable with moves they could attack out of disadvantage with and be successful. This is, knowing the matchup.

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Let's see what else. Playing against tonyfamilia, all of this time, I still never knew how to effectively use Sarah against Brad. I had no idea how to even effectively battle against Brad. One of the paramount things one should do against Brad, is float him whenever he goes into stances on guard, because it's free. This is with any character, vs Brad, and it's not even specific it's universal, and I didn't even realize this until tfam's final day playing the game.

Wanna know what I used to do? Just freeze up and try to guess which move is coming next. Only because I am a good guesser, am I able to deal with opponents in matchups I don't have any grip on. That's inconsistent as hell too. One day I'm doing great, the next I'm doing terrible(my personal problems creating many inconsistencies, and concentration issues, aside).

This is when you run into opponents where it feels like you can't deal with them, because you just can't ever choose correctly vs them, and it's because you don't even know how to use your character vs theirs to narrow the choices in which you're guessing, down.

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Was talking with Jide in the shoutbox yesterday. He said something along the lines of, against Goh you should ETEG a lot, because it shuts his damage way down. I said something like, I agree, but you should also attack out of disadvantage often too and switch it up. This is because Goh's best stuff is counterhit moves, and throws. Sabaki's set him up for you to not strike and freeze, so he throws you, attacking Goh a lot beats his ability to throw you. Goh's catchthrow is so damaging, as to discourage ETEG, yet using Goh's catchthrow for the Goh player is a giant risk because the player can spot it and get free damage by attacking or throwing him.

We also spoke about Kage vs Sarah. He said, "3PP with Kage is good vs Sarah's flamingo" I was like, "Yeah I agree, except he shouldn't always use it" I then said something like, Kage vs flamingo should often times evade to Sarah's front side, because 3PP threat will remove flamingo highs, and the catch throw, and the evading to Sarah's front side will remove threat of mids. Kage should evade to Sarah's front, and try to be on the look out for sweeps. Sarah on the other hand, should focus on using delays from flamingo, using the sweeps and even giving step stance a try because that will create natural delay.

I think I lost my overall point. I just want to stress to us all, myself included, that we need to inform everyone about the little details of how to dismantle a specific character with the game's universal tools, and then a step further with what a specific character can do in the matchup.

 

Goh's catch throw and lightweight combo damage is what makes every lightweight character a good matchup for him (except aoi probably has an even matchup because he doesn't have much for into tenchi (I think catch throw whiffs on it and if late she can 2P it)). He can do alot of damage to those characters and discourage evading unlike what he can do to middleweights and up. The most he can get on those characters is like 20% percent and if he's wrong he'll take more damage. He has delay basara but it's difficult to land on a delay with Basara being 20 frames and failed evades being 23(?). Add in evade canceling and delayed evades and it's not that reliable of an option. Needless to say, characters like Lei-Fei, Lau and Kage can be a bit of a pain to beat.

So yeah, basically ETEG to Goh's back if you're a middleweight and up with the occasional AdamYUKI knee and you should be fine. You don't want to ETEG into and eat like 70 damage.

GGs Mackfactor your Goh has improved a lot. I've gotta put some anti-goh measures in next time we play. My bad on leaving, I came back after like 5 minutes and couldn't get you to respond. For your question, Goh doesn't have any guaranteed damage after CH. Only a guessing game.

 

You'd have a point, but i haven't used lei fei in well over a year, year and half, maybe longer.

touche. then you sir, are correct.

 

lol, once again, i'm not really a lei fei user anymore. sure i can still eek out some wins, but i'm so far removed from him that he's not even fun to use, b/c i don't know what i'm doing nemore, and i am ultra aware that i don't!

I think the issue at hand was more of me misinterpreting "abare." I was thinking of abare style, more as those opponents who favor attack first, attack last, and attack more inbetween. Be it at neutral, slight disadv (intelligently trying to beat their opponents to the punch--er, as intelligently as you can when at dis), recovery etc.... someone who is willing to accept a greater risk vs reward profile than others.

I've found that the people i can beat, i have beat them consistently throughout my character evolution, be it lei fei, pai, shun, or akira. And the people who consistently beat me, have done so regardless of which character i was using at that time.

Now, i definitely agree with you, that there is quite to be said in learning a) your character's nuances, and THEN b) learning the nuances vs specific match ups.

But on a fundamental level, some people who play this game are more disposed towards defense, spacing, and poking. some are more disposed towards rushdown, offense, and combo-orientated. Some (and this can easily overlap) are more prone to develop solid flow charts / mix ups, and then apply these to create pressure.

Now i'm not sure where i was going when i started this, lol. I guess the point of it is, people who are good, and tend towards solid defense give me the most problems. people who are good but tend towards offense, i usually find that my offense wins out. but then, styles make fights. thats why person A can beat person B who beats person C, but person C wins out over person A. However, i personally think it takes more skill and leads to a greater level of play to be the defensive minded player. IMO.

I know there are (or at least were, back when the game was much more popular) people on here who are/were highly respected as good players, but i didn't like playing against them for want of competition. people i'd ring up win streaks with my mian, sub, and sub-sub in boredom. and then scratch my head as i heard them praised on these forums. But then i stepped back and said, just b/c so and so doesn't give me any problems, doesn't mean their style doesn't naturally counter other people's styles.

 

Thanks for elaborating man. Now, I understand what you were saying a lot more. There was a bit of confusion before.

ggs to HappyFriend. I had a lot of fun.

 

This.

Plus you need to remember that just because people are praised on here doesn't mean that the other player thinks they are really "that good." A lot of the time they just have fun playing against them whether they win consistently or not. Also there's a positive vibe that prevails here, so
I can say GG's PompeyFraz your Akira was awesome although its not like his Akira was really awesome.

It's "patronizing" really because Pompey never came close to beating me; however, it was just positive reinforcement. The non greatness to a "GG" noone would be the wiser to because the matches were never seen by anyone but us.


(Course, once I started posting videos of me dominating people I GG'd way back instantly made me look like a sarcastic prick....which I don't deny. I'm from a shit talking fighting game background.)

 

GG's is GG's period. If you have fun then its good games.

Defense this defense that... I don't have the best defense online cause its a toss up with lag. I just try to hold out long enough to find my openings. Knowing the match up and opponents habits helps alot.

GG's to Aidan - Always a pleasure. When i can't find noone in the afternoon your always there. Anytime Dude.

GG's to Kfergi - Very agreesive with nice stepping. This just knows when to attack. Hi-speed matches with a nice connection also. Showed me alot on adapting mid round.

 

GG's to everyone I've had the pleasure to play when I do play.
On that note I'll be on tonight! So please someone give me more pleasure.