FT: Hands On Report

Re: FT: Brutally Honest Jacky + Kage Info

Ohh boo fucking hoo...let me get on the FT nuthugger bandwagon.

 

Re: FT: Goh Info

First of all, I realize I`m a noob, so take this info with a grain of salt. Although I am trying to be helpful so don`t flame too badly.

I never really played Goh during evo, but have been in Japan on foreign exchange in Japan, and started playing him upon the release of FT. I`m currently first kyo with some wins over some relatively skilled opponents, so a little of what I say may hold merit.

, is a godsend for Goh. Its got decent range, stomach crumple on MC, does decent damage, and leads to an easy ground throw (breakable) or increased number of kicks before the inevitable ground throw. Most i`ve done is , ,, +, for massive, and easy damage. Its easily techrollable, but the potential exists for various amounts of kicks to throw off timing. (1 kick, GT, 2 kicks, GT, 1 kick GT, etc.)

, is hugely useful. It does 2 important things: hits ducking opponents for advantage (not sure how much) and the second punch will (usually) follow someone who evades the first without a canned attack. Its also fast, so it can break Sarah`s flamingo if they don`t react instantly.

, seemed initially to be really useful, but the kick has bad recovery, and is WAY high, so anyone who ducks it I believe has a guaranteed throw, or a canned combo starting opportunity.

++, , +, looks like it has an awesome animation, but I haven`t figured out the timing. With the variety of crumple combos for just a bit less damage, and a much easier combo, it doesn`t seem like its worth it to me. In addition the first punch is slow as hell.

+, I belive has been changed from evo, but the final round Goh computer somehow linked it with a groundthrow for decent damage. I haven`t gotten it to work, but if I do I`ll edit w/ results.

+, has become really useful against the "jab fest" that someone was worried about. If the first hit lands, I believe the shrm is guaranteed. Its decent damage, the shrm goes throw most potential counters, and all it takes is a moment for the first p to connect

strikes me as useful due to its range, but it no longer crumples unless on MC, making it much less useful. Its still good for poking, and it sabakis most kicks, but the damage potential has been largely reduced.

+, has been shockingly more useful than Creed`s Goh guide implied it would be. Its difficult to dodge the first kick, as its a roundhouse, and the 2nd punch catches the majority of counters, and regardless of how it hits, its a guaranteed stomach crumple with lots of combo potential. This is the best defense I`ve found against evasion whores.

Thus far, I haven`t found ANY back turned game for Goh, nor a chance to use that throw yet.

, This move has always been useful, and I`m not sure if It ever crumpled, but I haven`t gotten it to while I`ve been here. The best results I get with it are either in a combo, or as an MC which low staggers into crouch (don`t know what its called technically sorry) which gives a good opportunity for a ++ throw, or [K++, stance pickup.

Those are the only moves I`ve really been paying lots of attention to. More info on other ones as I play more.

As for the matchup situation heres my takes.

vs. Akira: Not nearly as hard as some other matches have been. Akira is still the strike fiend he`s always been, but its much more possible to block his attacks until you get the timing of the match in your favor. Its possible I just haven`t haven`t hit any good Akiras tho.

vs Lion: This matchup is really difficult for me. Lion`s ability to poke both high and low make it hard to dictate the tempo of the match. In addition, Lion generally speaking combos easily, so unless you can block everything, your taking a decent amount of damage.

vs Vanessa. She seems to be easier for me, although I`ve only played against her once. Her punch catch and kick catch are much easier to break now, and I only got hit with one attack respectively each time I got caught. I`ll need more experience with this one, but thats how it looks initially.

vs Pai: This matchup was shockingly easy for me, and I honestly don`t know why. The player was easily the best I`ve hit in recent memory, but I tore him up in 3 rounds straight. The fact that no single combo will kill half your life seems to go strongly in Goh`s favor, as with his stomach crumples and ground throws, many of his do. This matchup got easier for me, although I`m sure I must have gotten lucky.

vs Wolf: This matchup has always been difficult for me, but Goh`s variety of punches have made it easier to break a turtler, and his ability to do throws as damaging as they are compensates for Wolf`s ability to do so. This matchup is about even, although , has given me a serious edge.

vs Lei Fei: This matchup sucks for Goh. A good Lei Fei player can flow seemlessly from stance to stance, the vast majority of them unthrowable, which is Goh`s strong point. Countering and evading become incredibly important here, and my weakness in the second one makes this my worst matchup.

vs Sarah: My other terrible matchup. Sarah in flamingo can kick your head into the ground if your not careful. Someone said her damage potential is down, but her striking potential is up. They`re definitely right. Sarah`s standing form isn`t nearly as bad, but flamingo has been tearing me apart.

vs Jacky: yet again, not much experience with this matchup, but it seems to be one of my better ones. Jacky`s backstep to (don`t know the exact commands sorry) can be countered with , for a stomach crumple and damaging combo, and its relatively easy to do. +, I use widely in this matchup too.

vs Jeffry: Not an easy matchup for Goh, and Jeffry has some very powerful striking combos. The delay in his moves is difficult to predict if your new to FT (like me) so even though I`m about 50/50 on this one, the odds seem currently stacked in Jeff`s favor, but will swing around to a more experience Goh.

vs Aoi: Aoi pwned me. hard. Her mind f*** game has gotten huge, as virtually everything is stoppable. THis matchup was really difficult for me, although the player who destroyed me got taken by the Pai player I destroyed right after. maybe its matchups, maybe its luck, but I lost 3 - 0 to Aoi, before aoi lost 12 - 2 to Pai, before Pai lost 6 - 0 to me.

vs Goh: Its a mirror. Enough said

vs Brad: Hard matchup for goh, as he has many fast attacks to ruin throw attempts, and decently damaging combos. Not many players play him so its not a huge issue though.

vs Shun: Shun is a bitch to play against. His thoroughly unpredictable, and you have to be offensive, because a high DP is just asking to kick your ass. Maybe its my inexperience, but Shun has been pwning me recently.

vs Lau: Not a hugely difficult matchup for me. No idea why, because he`s fast like Brad, but he hasn`t given me significant problems.

vs Kage: Against a bad Kage player, or a decent one, this is easily in Goh`s favor. Against a good Kage player who knows the mind f*** games well, your in for a very strategic, very enjoyable match. Win or lose, these ones are fun, as the FT Kage is much more of a ninja than he used to be.

I think thats all of the characters, sorry if I missed any. I`ll update or post more as I play more, but for the time being, I hope this was useful to some of you.

 

Re: FT: Brutally Honest Jacky + Kage Info

They changed Kage's 41236p 623p to 41236p 623pk I believe to be more consistent... (ie normal dp is with 623pk so rolling dp should be the same way, was with P in Evo)...

-Alex

 

Re: FT: Goh

I played some in the arcade yesterday, and fixed a few gaps

+, + is the throw to ground throw the cpu uses for damage. Its decent, and its easy to do.

Goh`s backturned game seems nonexistent to me. Each backturned attack is merely turning around before doing the normal forward attack. The throw seems pretty worthless to me as well.

Any questions, let me know. I`ll try to figure out some answers

 

Re: FT: Goh

Goh's p>k> look pretty useless. Even if you tried to roll away, its so slow they could probably catch you with a low throw (ouch), It just looks like a gloating match finisher to me :\

 

Re: FT: Goh

Yeah, after more play (i really need to stop spending so much) is almost completely worthless. The ability to turn on the kick is pointless, as Goh`s single throw doesn`t make up for the crap that is his backturned game. I guess its possible to use if you go straight from , +, and you`ve got someone incredibly cautious, but other than that, its worthless.

Other than that, most observations still stand.

 

Re: FT: Goh

I'm hoping Goh's connects on regular hit. That would be worthwhile./versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I believe his doesn't, only on counter. Also praying the can be cancelled. Then it would own. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: FT: Goh

From what I've seen, I think Goh's is going to be very useful.

First of all, his is -1 on hit, but is +3. Regardless if he even has any goon BT moves, a good flowchart is , . You'll cancel BT and end up a good distance away for midrange mixups.

 

Re: FT: Goh

Man, if you could cancel the K, that would be awesome. I still dont see the use in it though, any quick mid attack effectively stuffs all your options..

 

Re: FT: Goh

I didn`t know about the frame advantage, but I`ll try to take advantage of it in the arcade today, and post my findings. It just seems like the kick is almost always ducked rather than blocked, leaving you open to a fast executing float or stagger move. I`ll try that flowchart today, hopefully against some human player and see how effective it is.

The throw would be useful if it hit a ducking opponent, but as is, the + is ducked, and to my knowledge, Goh has no effective backturned attacks that hit crouching opponents fast enough to stop the . Thus his entire backturned game is rendered moot by someone who ducks, and has semi-decent reflexes. plus, I believe the interrupting the throw leads to a RC, but it might be YC. I`ll figure out later today.

Dagger

 

Re: FT: Goh

In a recent clip (http://axts10.web.infoseek.co.jp/sigure/vs_279.zip) the Goh players uses greatly. After backturning he dashes away and does a standing k against the Wolf who tries to him resulting in a stagger. This even seems garanteed as a minor counter against the attempt as the wolf is crouching.

A interupting the throw should be YC since it's a mC and not a MC btw (which it would have to be to get a RC).

/KiwE

 

Re: FT: Goh

The whole point about is to use it in guaranteed situations. Instead of going for a throw guessing game, you could choose guaranteed damage instead. Before, Goh needed 13 frames to do that with , now he can get guaranteed damage at 12 frames with .

Doesn't make him a super strong character, but there's no doubt or can be useful.

 

Re: FT: Goh

i dont know... i play shun, not goh, and even with a strong BT game, sometimes i would rather ~mixups instead of at +12. Unless goh gets some powerful stuff from BT, i dont know how much of an asset ti will be. BT throws usually don't offer too much benefit, looking at kage and shun, striking attacks are used a lot more.

btw, goh's is really a -14 mC tool... if it hits on the last frame of recovery (in -13, like akira's shrm), it will count as a normal hit, and not knockdown, just offer a poorer frame advantage than a simple p for slightly more damage.

 

Re: FT: Goh

Whoops, yeah you're right. (Obviously I don't play Goh!) I don't know what his BT options are, so I can't really comment. I think the point really is that he now has...what 30 points? guaranteed damage from +12 and +13 situations, whereas he didn't before.

Never underestimate the power of guaranteed damage, especially when you play against characters who know how to deal with mindgames!

 

Re: Red counters

Quick updates:

- I'm an idiot. Jeffry's VF4 elbow drop should be around 17 frames, and medium punch counterable.

- Goh is the MAN! His takes a load of damage off MC, and I think you can combo with knee, another running kick, or any of the other usual low hitting attacks.

- Goh's SPOD is executed with the same timing as Akira's, but at slightly less damage. (I'd say...70 points?) He has two versions...one which makes him travel further (risking R.O.), and the other he flips back to the side he started from. I think the former takes more damage.

- I wish I can use Kage's long chop. His upper sucks in comparison.

- From back turned JM, Kage has a TT low swipe! So he can punish standing blocking opponents with the catch throw or low swipe.

 

Re: Red counters

One quick note, wolf's b,d/f+p -> hcf+p+g has two versions. There's the normal version and a special version which gets a special camera angle, wolf screams "yes!" during the animation, and the animation seems a bit cooler - he picks them up like for a verticle suplex and holds them there for a split second before lowering them for the sidewalk slam. I'd wager to say the second version does a tad more damage. I think the execution *might* be like a perfect giant swing, what I do is just act like I'm doing a 270 throw and I've gotten the second version a few times like that. Later all

 

Re: Red counters

More:

- Goh's and Jeffry's + crumple on SRC! Jeffry's especially makes things interesting; since he ducks low, it could potentially get SRC even at disadvantage.

- For Kage, (MC, hold) > (hold) > > + > DP or or JM knee or stomp, etc. Did it against light weights, may not work for anything higher. Half life damage. May need to skip the punch depending on distance.

- Akira's weight seems to be lighter. TFT > Knee > > > + now works on him.

- Opponents can ukemi out of Kage's four hit DP and have the advantage.

- More combos should be possible after an MC upper for Kage...perhaps the trade-off against the long chop is higher damage potential (and slightly faster recovery). Yeah right, the long chop is better. Sega what are you doing?? I'm playing a weaker Kage right now than if I had VF.net!

- Brad is a MONSTER. OMG, he is so good now. First, he now can flow like Lei Fei. Second, he's got that damn swipe, swipe, swipe uppercut or whatever move. Third, his punch-punch-kick-kick canned combo is difficult to punish...I think you have to dodge, and towards his back. If the third kick hits on MC, the last kick is guaranteed plus guaranteed stomp. Fourth, he has this long range mid kick that he can also go to BT position that has sick range and seems unpunishable. Fifth, he now has this annoying little low hitting swipe (a la Steve from T4). It's not very damaging, but he can really poke now. All of this, plus his usual arsenal from Evo...Brad is both powerful AND interesting. Myke, KiWe, stop jerking off--Brad is no doubt the most upgraded character in the game.

- Goh's isn't as good as before. When the opponent staggers, he seems to stagger further than Evo so Goh can't press the throw game as much. Is (MC) > + still guaranteed? It may not be...

- Lion. He has this high kick-poke thing and which he then spazzes a bit. I think he can sabaki while spazzing? Whatever the case, that kick-poke is pretty good...I think they're both special high!

- Wolf's short shoulder is both improved and weakened. It seems a lot less vulnerable now, and according to Ian (a top HK player), it can bypass a lot of high attacks and low attacks like a low punch! The trade-off is that it is now 14 frames counterable. Seems fair. Knee for safer MC damage, short shoulder for avoiding certain attacks.

 

Re: Red counters

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:he has this long range mid kick that he can also go to BT position that has sick range and seems unpunishable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen that kick a lot in recent matches. Machi to the MAX!!!

 

Re: Red counters

That kick I think is his Evo changed. What makes it really fun is that it now staggers crouching opponents .... Shit like that and his changed upper (shite move)> that FUCKING GREAT upperelbow (longerrange, seems faster, HEAVY STAGGER ON mC, uncounterable??) is a great upgrade to his stepping game which is basicly 11G6p+k shit in Evo. There's just so much improvment - talk about Goh getting the short end of the stick of the newcomers.

Hell, when I saw somebody using the upperelbow in a movie effectivly recently I nearly crapped my pants.

http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=114280&Main=112644#Post114280

/KiwE