FT: Hands On Report

Re: Red counters

Hey guys, second day in Japan.

I had a hard time convincing my GF to play VF last night, but finally begged hard enough to get a scant 30 minutes at Shibuya High Tech. Picked Kage and ran off with a 4-5 winning streak, before a 10-dan Sarah challenged me.

Sarah`s combo potential may have decreased, but her Flamingo attacking power has definitely increased! I didn`t know what to do--she seems to have so many new options and strings. It felt like I was playing Soul Calibur.

I gave up after two tries, played a couple more people, before I saw Kyasao in the corner! He had a silver cup with his special rank Kage. Said a quick hello and introduce my girlfriend. The guy lost a lot of weight since I last saw him in Korea! Played him a few matches and he totally raped me, but it fast forwarded my FT Kage learning.

Alas, my GF was soon tugging my shirt and I had to leave. I am now in Kyoto, and had the wisdom to please my GF enough for her to allow me to visit an arcade. After beating off a few beginners and medium-level players (7th dan was the highest I saw), I had the chance to play against the CPU uninterrupted.

Overall, the "feel" has definitely changed. I don`t know what exactly it is (probably the game system changes referred to), but the first time I played FT the characters felt like they moved weirdly. Anyway, after a few casual. messing around matches against the CPU you`ll quickly adjust.

Onto gameplay stuff--

Kage:

In Evo, Kage was a very simple character to play with. He`s a character with good throws and several solid attacks. for countering, for interrupting and countering, + for long distance, and for evasiveness and high damage. That`s pretty much all you needed to know to be effective with Kage.

Well, that`s changed in FT. Kage now relies more on versatility and creativity, like in VF4 than Evo. relies on MC to float, so this isn`t as good of a move to poke with. The range on + is much shorter. Surprisingly, the range for seems to have lengthened, and his elbow is finally Lau-like.

+ is a good addition. On hit, it pushes the opponent far back. On MC, I think there`s enough advantage to dash forward and force the nitaku game. However, the move executes too slowly to be abusable. Has RO potential.

His new DP takes a lot of damage on all four hits, and is now a valid reverse nitaku tool (before he needed + or + for big damage, neither of which are particularly good). I think in the range of 70 points on MC. However, getting all four hits was pretty tough. I got it maybe 5% of the time. Kyasao tried several times against me and could only get 3 hits once.

His biggest addition by far is the options after . If you hold the , Kage goes into BT Jumonji. is the turn-around Jumonji punch and fast. + is the punch and elbow sabaki that staggers crouching opponents, and crumples on hit (even normal). He also has the BT + catch throw and sweep (I think). and from BT Jumonji cartwheels him in or out of the screen. It`s not silver bullet, but could put you in the position to throw counter an opponent who tries a linear attack. I haven`t really fully figured out how to play him yet with these options, but Kyasao confused the hell out of me with them. Just froze like a deer in headlights.

And finally...the TFT, now +. Against really good players, it`s a hell of pain to pull off a TFT since that`s the throw that`s escaped the most. There`s nothing more demoralizing than to work really hard and end up with that stupid Street Fighter throw (40-50 points?). It was a surprisingly bigger change than I anticipated, and I lost a few rounds because of it.

In the right hands, Kage is still a good character, but he`s no longer the character everybody can play effectively without practice. I anticipate a significant drop off in people playing Kage, and that night in Shibuya would suggest that.

Jeffry:

A bit disappointed in FT Jeffry--he simply didn`t have many changes from Evo even though most people would say he`s bottom tier.

His front back breaker is finally 270f...just when I`ve gotten used to the motion! His air throw is a nice addition but not that useful. The animation for the + hit throw is fantastic but how many times would you actually land it in a match? + ground throw looks great but I would much rather go for the pounce when the opportunity presents itself. He never really needed a catch throw from threat stance if you delay attacks to anticipate the dodge, though it is definitely a welcomed addition. His default no longer knocks down, but it`s actually not that bad since it`s easy to tack on the follow-up for decent damage. Unlike previous reports, + does not crumple or knock down.

Jeffry feels and probably plays the same as Evo. Boo. Those who know better out there, please correct me if I`m wrong!

Wolf:

A lot of work was done to Wolf! Many of his animations have changed. + after KS, +++, , etc. I love how + looks.

HCB+ is REALLY good. It`s slow, sure, but it takes a lot of damage and is half circular. Definitely usable in a match. K5 is a beaut and cements his dominance in the throwing game. low throw looks good. is of course very useful and now makes Wolf a decently well rounded character.

One weird thing. I think when you use + with your back againt the ring edge, you get a different animation!! It still ROs out the opponent, but seems to inflict damage as well? Unsure, maybe I had done something else by accident.

Well, there`s more but I got to sign off. My GF is getting impatient. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Overall, I`m loving FT. The animation is simply superb, the stage aesthetics are far better, and the characters look really interesting. Can`t wait to play more!!!

 

Re: Red counters

Great report Ice-9. Keep the hotness coming!

 

Re: Red counters

Abducting a girl and chaining her to you is not the same as a g/f Aside from that minor quip, great report....a few questions

Has sega announced any further revisions to FT?
I thought Kage's TFT was changed to a 270?
With the + with Jeffry, what animation does it cause, just force crouch?

 

Re: Red counters

I had the same thoughts running through my head when watching some FT Sarah vids...and to some extent Aoi.

 

Re: Red counters

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:
Alas, my GF was soon tugging my shirt and I had to leave. I am now in Kyoto, and had the wisdom to please my GF enough for her to allow me to visit an arcade.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arrgh. Sounds awful to me. Horrible memories. Please change your behaviors. Ugh. Resentment for life if you get married. Shudder.

 

Re: Red counters

Josh - just FYI...there are no expected changes to FT. What we're seeing is the final version as they know it to date. This version is being sold through japanese distributors as we speak - this is why Shanghai, HK, etc, are all having FT machines popping up.

re the TFT - go back a bit and you'll see that initially the TFT was a new 270, however that was changed to the HCB motion.

Perhaps Ice can comment on the b+P changes...however, I'm anticipating that the animation has changed very little...it will likely cause a knockdown as it did in every iteration of VF4. I don't remember reading about it's animation being altered, but I could be wrong.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Red counters

WHen VF 4 v. b came out..was v. c already in the works?

 

Re: Red counters

<sigh> Perhaps. Who knows? Who cares? I don't see the point in wanting to feel reassured that the game as one sees it right now is not the *final* version.

Keep in mind your feelings for this version of VF4 are entirely based on comments from a few people with first hand experience and barely more than 15 to 20 clips of initial play within the first 2 weeks of release.

And lastly, it's not like Sega puts up signs that say:

"VF4 Final Tuned!! July 14!! (New version being worked on currently for pending release)"

/versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Red counters

Hey,

Great to know that you managed to get to play ft. Always felt that Kage was a bit too grey in fighting style in evo.

Oh and btw, girls are emotional committments. Mess with them, end up like the "rest" (before you came along). Must say that you are good at *cough* convincing her that there is a "cause" worthwhile in the arcade. lol.

 

Re: Red counters

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

It's been confirmed that there is a second type of red counter, called the "shaky" red counter (SRC). I guess the term "shaky" comes from the screen shaking when it occurs.

It seems the conditions for the three types of counter hits are:

or , or damage 10 or less: yellow counter hit
damage 11 to 24: red counter
damage 25 or more: shaky red counter

this info comes from vf4bbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

So we should be able to look at the move tables and figure out which moves give what counter under mC, and MC conditions, right? (i.e. presumably Brad's f,f,+K since its base damge is 30 would always give a SRC). Damn, these move-lists are going to get complicated.


kbcat

 

Re: Red counters

[ QUOTE ]
kbcat said:
(i.e. presumably Brad's f,f,+K since its base damge is 30 would always give a SRC).

[/ QUOTE ]

It means that Brad's + will GET a SRC, since it does 30 dmg. The counter type depends completely on the move you are interrupting (if that's what you meant, then nm).

 

Re: Red counters

[ QUOTE ]
Dandy_J said:

[ QUOTE ]
kbcat said:
(i.e. presumably Brad's f,f,+K since its base damge is 30 would always give a SRC).

[/ QUOTE ]

It means that Brad's + will GET a SRC, since it does 30 dmg. The counter type depends completely on the move you are interrupting (if that's what you meant, then nm).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh... ok... makes much more sense now -- we could still chart that
(seems to remove the incentive to do risky moves now since they are even more risky now--throw counterable if block, SRC if interupted--n'est pas?)

kbcat

 

Different stats?

Does anybody know if there's a difference in, say, floathight for RC and SRC btw? Or dmg wise? This sounds very intresting - didn't expect these many changes to the system itself until VF5. I mean; the system changes between FT and Evo seems greater then between Evo and VerC I reckon.

/KiwE

 

Re: Different stats?

Wouldn't only certain moves give you a SRC and never a plain RC anyway? I mean wouldn't an SRC just be an RC with a more damaging move?

 

Re: Different stats?

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:
1/60 has started filling out Akira's movelist and so far they only have a single column for Red Counter

[/ QUOTE ]
If you look at Pai's movelist, they have a column for RC and SRC. In fact, her new ++ move is effected by SRC:

-3 on hit, -5 on block, +1 on YC/RC, and knockdown (foot crumple?) on SRC.

Also, I think move properties like Jeff's ++ foot crumple and Aoi's + stomach crumple will only happen on SRC.

 

Re: Red counters

My trip to Japan was far too short, and I am now back in Singapore. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif Because I was always concious of how much time I spent in the arcades (don't worry guys, my GF still loves me), I didn't watch other people play so much as to quickly jump in and get in a few games. I also didn't get the chance to see or play against many famous players. And so my observations are regretfully limited.

GENERAL

The one thing that pops out is icons on the bottom corners of the screen indicating your fighting style. Icons I remember and my guess at what they mean:

Fists: The image is a bit like Ryo of Art of Fighting's many punches. I assume this denotes an attacking style.

Shield: Probably someone who guards a lot.

Fists and Shield: Well-balanced?

Bull: I think this one is someone who dashes and evades a lot.

Judo: Obviously to indicate a preference for throwing.

Rooster: Someone who's machi, basically. These weren't as rare as I would have thought! Most Jeffrys are Roosters, laughably.

One also gets levels applied for the above. My Kage was a Fists guy, then got changed to Bull, and then back to Fists. So, the designation may be automatic and always changing. My Jeffry is a Fists and Shield guy.

There are interesting game theory implications in that you enter a match with a hypothesis of the opponent's style. If he's a Rooster, should I open the round with a dash and throw? Or does the opponent know this and will attack right away? One Rooster in Kyoto did this with good effect...he would play very aggressive, making me think that the Rooster didn't imply machi. However, as he started losing he would revert back to the machi style that earned him the Rooster.

One has the option of not displaying this icon, however.

Back to gameplay: the change move system isn't like SF3 in that you select it as part of your character. Each character comes with a default move, and you can change it to another through VF.net if you wish. For Kage the default moves are the short upper (vs. long chop) and the circular kick (vs. JM knee).

KAGE

On the upper versus long chop debate...all I can say is that with the uppercut as the default (and hence, the move I used) my usage has dropped from about 25% in Evo to 5% in FT. Because of its range and inability to knock down on mC, one can only use it for a flow chart, MC tool. The long chop, on the other hand, knocks down on mC. While its damage potential is limited, its poking strength more than compensates. If you ask me, it's hands down long chop.

If you go with the long chop, you may choose to go with the JM knee. The knee crumples on MC and, while I don't remember the exact combo used, I do remember thinking great damage (70 points or so). Instead of the upper, one can use the JM knee as an MC tool. I think it's non-throw counterable.

The circular kick, however, is fantastic. It's much faster now, about Vanessa speed I'd say, and better yet, seems to be special high! On MC you get a big float for considerable damage. However, the priority of the move seems on the low side.

More people were using than , and the long chop more than the upper, and the upper more than the two s. Give it some time, IMO, and the trend will shift to be more balanced.

isn't as a great as I thought. Most of my opponents keeping blocking even after guarding it...but I don't think Kage has any option except to cartwheel away once opponents wise up and attack. Contrary to my previous report, BT JM + does NOT seem to sabaki anything. Like Evo Brad, Kage must mix it up by not going into BT JM to punish an immediate attack from block.

Not only is the less safe with the weakened BT ARM, + has also lost a lot of its charm as well. I suppose this applies to all characters, including Lau's +.

Kage's new uppercut also isn't as good as I thought it was. Against a crouching opponent on normal hit, the third attack (a kick) will whiff. It might be me, but getting all four hits after + seems impossible. However, Kage does still have his DPK from Evo.

I've been able to get the stomp after every +...is it still guaranteed? Or is it maybe just really hard to evade?

JEFFRY

Llanfair, by clarifying is this in reference to Jeffry?

Basically, is one of his change moves. The default version is the Evo version , with the change that the initial no longer knocks down. Instead, it forces the opponent to crouch, and the hit stun is long enough that you can hit scan and tack on the second to knock down. Overall damage is a little less than a > pounce, but still effectively the same move as in Evo.

The change version is the VF4 : presumably 14 frames, long range, knocks down for a guaranteed pounce, and no follow-on canned hit. Most of the Jeffrys I played against had the VF4 version, but I actually prefer the Evo version.

The other change move is +, but I have no idea what the alternative is.

I will also argue that Jeffry's ground throw game has been weakened with the damage inducing +. In Evo, whenever there's an opportunity to ground throw and if I wanted damage, I'd go for the pounce. If I wanted mind games or R.O. potential, I'd go for the ground throw. Now the opponent will know when I want to R.O. and so won't fail to input +. Bummer.

Other notes: Threat stance + makes Jeffry's okizeme game even more powerful. 270f was a bit weird getting used to but much faster than a motion--if you guys remember an old thread about desired changes, this was on my wish list. Animation for ++ changed, and the damage might even be beefed up. However, wake up games now more limited as Jeffry throws the opponent further. + hit throw animation also changed and is soooo cool.

Overall, Jeffry is left basically unchanged and plays the same.

OTHERS

Kage and Jeffry are my main characters, and these are the two I played most. My comments for other characters will be a bit random:

Sarah is awesome. She is now one of the more popular characters and really confusing if you don't know the options available to her in FL. While her damage potential is down, her striking strength is much better. She really reminded me of Hwoarang in Tekken. I probably lost 10 straight matches to Sarah players before getting used to her FT style.

Jacky seems to be played the same, despite his new options from SS. + > > (open stance) new jumping kick attacks. The character spins sideways from this combo for the potential to ground attack. He has a throw that ends with + where he grabs the opponent by the neck and kicks him from behind. Good damage.

Lei Fei is a bigger bitch in Evo. You've seen the roll mind games. To be honest, I don't know him well enough to know what's different in FT, he seems to have more options from his stances and his damage capability seems to be higher. He has a punching string where he does a double striking fist on the third hit (similar to Akira's +) and can be comboed from +. Opponents spin sideways for a potential stomp. His + animation has changed to a really cool animation but doesn't push back as much as it used to. I think his chain throw must be really hard to execute because all of my opponents kept missing it.

Akira...is definitely stronger in FT. That + is a real bitch of a move, and he has retained most everything from Evo with lower damage potential. (Who needs the damage potential now that he can hurt you in so many different ways??) I can escape ST > spalm most of the time in Evo with Jeffry, but had difficulty with Kage in FT so I wonder how much easier it is really to defend.

Argh, getting tired, I'll stop here.

 

Re: pai and vanessa new moves

wow just seen a couple of clips from a link posted by a dude called saiki on gamefaqs, so credit goes to him,not sure but likely posts here.
i like pai and vannessas new stuff, especially V, Sega seem to have defiantely beefed her up with a load more strings and choice of of follow up plus some moves make her go into offensive and defensive.
Ive only seen clips so I cant really go into detail and can only discribe from wat ive seen.

Pai:-
well her moves have already been mentioned
but ill mention them again:-
,,,-its like a highhitting version of her , but not as quick i think ,then agin i dont know the frames, plus she ends up back faced, the secound kick is basically the same maybe a lil slower.

,+-basically her , but she hops into it and has quite a good distance, plus she can go into her bokutai stance.

back stance-++,+- basically this is her back stance elbow undentical to laus but she can perform her hit-throw which weve all seen on the FT officail site. Hit-throw has a zoomed in camera angle which gives it that Hong Kong action star moment, i love it.

vannessa
(offensive stance moves):-
wallthrow,,+, man this throw is just evil, its alot like saraghs 270 flamingo throw but against a wall and involves V beating the shyt outta of her opponent in a series of punches, she then rams them into the wall and kicks em in the face, nasty but wicked.

,++
has a new animation where she grabs your arn then wraps legs around opponents head, rolls em down and breaks there arm. looks nice

++, ++ similiar to her , hit throw, but minus the lil walk. Basically a sweep into her takedown

,,++, -
she follows up her , with a spinning back fist , unremarkable looking but gives her more options and goes into defensive

,+++
she can perform a backfist as described above after,, the backfist knocks down on red counter but it seemed like the opponent was blocking and V knocked him down still so not sure if unblockable but doubt, guess my eyes are playing tricks. ends in defensive

,+
V takes a giant swing at her opponent and knocks em down, it seems to hit mid i think, reminds me of her +

+,,,++
Folows up the punch with a knee but she ends up in defensive stance, intresting

+,,++
string follow up the same as above string which ends in defensive

+,++
goes into her backfist and ends in defensive

+,++
similair end as above and ends in defensive

(defensive moves):-
,++-follows up pwith a knee ends in ofeensive

+,++, follows up the high kick with a high hitting backfist and ends in offensive

+++, follows up the low kick with a backfist as above but goes into offensive stance, neat!

+,++-follows up the punch with a mid hitting knee which forces her inot offensive stance,

,++, V recoils her upperbody a tiny bit back then lunges forward with a punch. Pushes opponent slightly back, smiliar to her , but hits high i think

sorry if i cant describe the moves in indepth detail but there only from tiny media clips.
Dont suppose if anyone can confirm if pai has any more new moves besides the three mentioned already. Plus could somebody tell me indetail which moves have been weakened for her. Greatly apprecaited

 

Re: Red counters

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:
Kage's new uppercut also isn't as good as I thought it was. Against a crouching opponent on normal hit, the third attack (a kick) will whiff. It might be me, but getting all four hits after + seems impossible. However, Kage does still have his DPK from Evo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering...if you hit with ++ and stop at the 2nd or 3rd hit, is kage safe?