Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

It seems to me like STEP is just a better way to cancel out of Flamingo, giving you more options and scare tactics to prevent your opponent from attacking, and CH them if they do.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

For me I've found that I almost always do the back somersault if I know I want to get out of flamingo. Always works for me... so far. ;p

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

You are right, the somersault escape is the best way to get out. However at large advantages or if your opponent is choking mind games wise, STEP can be useful.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

You are probably right Dan....dammit we need to play!! argh!!

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

It also leaves you close range while stepping allowing Sarah to be CHed by everything and their dog..

Like Dan said, backward somersault is safest way out of flamingo, and Step is imo only useful if opponent has been conditioned into blocking in brainfreeze..

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Good thread!
I have just one question: nothing is guaranteed after FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif MC, even with the +18 frames advantage?
I remember in VF4evo, FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif MC, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif was combo

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Those all should be possible, unless the game system makes an exception. I don't have the game on me to test however I do remember MC FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif allowing me to do the same EVO follow ups as well as the canned follow ups without being blocked.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

I've tried it, but the second kick (one press of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif does two kicks) seems to stop you from getting a guaranteed follow up. I could be wrong, I haven't tested this, it's just my observation from a few versus rounds.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Yes, you're right, I also tested it on practice mode, and no guaranteed follow ups after FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif MC, that's why I asked. I thought at first that it was a practice mode bug, or an error in the frame data moves list.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Ah this propably explains it. I hadnt thought of that really /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Yeah I also tested this, and sadly the frame data is innaccurate. I wasn't able to get anything to connect after FL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif MC which really sucks, thanks a bunch Sega.

Oh wells, you can still use it as a general purpose special high that gives you advantage on hit.

I'll edit the first post later to update Sarah players on this flaw.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

That's a big downgrade. That move was very useful at forcing the opponent to crouch. Now it isn't anywhere near as much of a threat.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

I've begun redoing and reorganizing the first post with updated information and more of my findings as well as others that have contributed.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Yea nice thread dude. I honestly didn't think FL cancel wasuseful but yea it is pretty useful. Overall nice FL breakdown as I would do it in a much crappier style than you.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

great update on the first post.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

After too long an absence... I've finally succumbed and purchased a PS3...

Great re-edit Dan. This is much more useful than your original post. (Which I must say was very good to begin with.) Any Sarah player should go back and read the top of this thread.

A few of my observations and questions:

The key problem with the (FL)K in VF5 is that you get 2 kicks for one button press unlike its more powerful/versatile VF4:Evo version. As others have pointed out, the canned second kick is what causes the wonkiness with regards to the frame data. I don't like losing control of the actual kicks Sarah does. The same was done to Sarah's old df+KKK from Vf3 to VF4, but at least her sidekick has finally been taken off the useless move list as it now has similar stats compared to the other characters sidekicks as well as becoming another FL starter.

Again as previously stated, the key pressure game once you're in FL stance is to force your opponent to guess between avoiding (FL)df+K vs. the gatling kick throw. (FL)df+K makes your opponent want to stand & guard or evade, while those are the two things the FL catch throws love the best.

I do like the change to b+P+K+G for the backflip escape... no more errant backflips. This makes it much easier to use the FL gatling kick throw. In VF4 it had to be buffered into the recovery of other attacks. This is a big improvement.

Unfortunately practically all of Sarah's throws were weakened in VF5 except for the 3 catch throws. Both of the FL throws are catch throws-- which makes them unescapable, but Sarah can be hit or even thrown out of the start up animation before the throws connect and start. (I've been a fan of the uf+P+G catch since it appeared in VF3. It seems to connect better in VF4/5.)

Now my questions. What are reliable combos after (FL)df+K staggers a crouching opponent?

How about good combos after (FL)df+K crumples (major counter or counter hit)? It bothers me that (FL)df+PK whiffs after a (FL)df+K crumple and I feel like a scrub doing brain dead PPPK when I get a crumple.

Dan, what happen to the paragraph on the (FL)P+K low punch sabaki? What's the best you can do after a successful low punch sabaki now? The old VF4 combo (low punch sabaki - (FL)f+K+G - db+K+G,K - (FL)u+K) isn't guaranteed anymore Does anyone have a reliable combo suggestion? Or is it just another combo that AM2 decided to weaken and we have to live with it?

Ooh... Sarah has finally learned how to do a low rising attack from the face up and feet away orientation... it's only the 5th version of the game...

Finally, a correction, to evade certain half circular attacks, you want to evade to your opponent's back side or front side, not to the background or foreground. It depends on your opponent's stance-- which foot is in front. This is noted in the move lists. Thanks Myke!

Yupa

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Big Yupa wb!

Just on top of my memory:

- I think blackbook say (FL)d/f+p,k is guaranteed after a (FL)d/f+k stagger.
- Against lightweights: (FL) d/f+k MC > stance cancel > d+p (refloat) > b+k+g > d+k,k

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

Here is a contribution from me to answer your question Yupa.

Here are some videos and some times with the notation that i bothered to put down. I apologize ahead of time with the notations if they are slightly incorrect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLaGak_tJUI
-round 1:
4pk4k->3k
2p+kk,3pk->FL, FL pp2k
CH 2k+g, 33k, 4k->FL, FL p4k
-Round 3:
CH 4k->FL (crumble stun), CH FL 3k (crumble), p, p, 2kk


http://www.youtube.com/v/xH3yALYnDns
-Round 4:
CH 4k->FL, FL 3k, FL 3pk, FL pp2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBnRi3ObWcE
-00:53
CH 4K->FL, FL 3k, 2p, 4k+g SLAM, pp4pk

I think the one above has a stance cancel in it.

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

The 2K+G combo is not guaranteed past the Dragon Cannon I think, the opposing played didn't tech roll.

From what I have found:

from FL 3K

vs. Light Weights
you can G cancel flamingo into
2P(relaunch)>4K+G>2KK
2p(relaunch)>4K+G>6_PP4PK

I do not know if they are stance specific as I have gotten both to work from closed stance.

vs. middle dudes I use
P>6_P>2KK
3PK>PP2K

I think the first one is closed and the second is open.

I don't know the heavy combos so I usually just use PP2K or 2P(relaunch)>2KK

 

Re: Flamingo & Step Stance: Breakdown/Strategy

I have continued to rennovate the first post.

More information and break down of moves. Sorry for not being able to do everything but I will break down what I can.

Yupa: re-read your post, yeah sorry about the half circular confusion, I'm mixing my DoA3 knowledge and it's killing me, I will go back and fix that soon.

Btw the update will show you some stuff after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif sabaki.