First Look: VF5 on 360

Discussion in 'Console' started by DubC, May 1, 2007.

  1. GoDokunoDan

    GoDokunoDan Well-Known Member

    New players can read the freaking VBrady games manual. It gives all the information you need, from basics to advanced combos to even throw escapes for each throw and all the stagger moves, all in a more accessible with all the information in a grahp and chart form, rather than plugging through it in a dojo.
    I played through the dojo in Vf4evo, it just told you to jump through hoops and used terms they didnt even define. The Brady guide for 4 and 5 defined everything, and explained everything COMPLETELY. They are just including the dojo mode because one its a given really, and two, its the easiest things they can add to the game without doing any real work.

    "Better" anti aliasing may just be a matter of ATis graphics chip, Improve AI shouldve been there from Jump, as was the training mode controls 4 had. So really The360 vers moreso has a patch rather than actual "ADDED FEATURES".
    Actuall "NEW" features would be AI training< uploading and Downloadin Player m,ade AIs and Replays.


    And If the 360 vers can save replays in EVERY mode, thats just a patch too.
     
  2. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with GoDokunoDan for once.

    By all means, get the 360 version to have a home version VF5. Don't think that you are getting the "definitive version" because it's likely to not live up to the hype in features. Get it for the great Arcade Fighting game that it is, and don't worry about the extra features. There is a much much much better resource for DOJO training, and that is VFDC. I really can't say more about how important it is to play live opponents and ask questions on VFDC to learn more about the game. This is something that you can already do with the PS3 version, and the 360 version will not change that fact.

    Waiting for the 360 version is mostly just an excuse for most people who can already afford getting VF5. If you already have 360 or you can't afford PS3, then I can understand. Just that waiting for the 360 version is not going to magically make you a better VF player.
     
  3. hikarutilmitt

    hikarutilmitt Well-Known Member

    VF4Evo actually TAUGHT you how to use them and apply them, though. It's one thing to know a massively damaging combo and another to know how to use the combo from the beginning. You can't read timing. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

    That said, I do like how the guide is worked out and wish they'd been allowed to print the frame data (but that's what VFDC is for :)) and keep meaning to pick it up for the sake of having it, but I guess they'll be re-releasing it when the 360 version is out, so I've got a lot of time to snag it for myself.
     
  4. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Actually, VF4evo doesn't tell you how to apply the techniques at all. It merely set up very specific situations to demonstrate the concepts it's trying to show you.

    You can learn to CD to fuzzy after getting hit by PK, but can you do this in a real match? You can learn to LP after you guard a move that's not throw counterable, but is that the best thing to do? Do you even know what you should do afterwards if the LP hits? Can you even ETEG consistently in a real match?

    Without knowledge outside of what VF4evo's tutorial mode teaches you, you have no way to understand how to apply any of those techniques in a real match. Thinking that it does will only produce more players with the wrong idea about VF.

    Look at the advance technique post in the dojo forum. Players will think that is all there is to VF, just those concept in the tutorial mode. They might even think they are advance techniques! Fuzzy guarding and ETEG are really the BASICS of VF. The advance concept in VF is actually discerning what you should do in hundreds of different situations, and explain why is it that you pick what you did. The ability to execute these plans comes from learning the basics of VF, and only some of those basics are covered in VF4evo tutorials.

    It's sorely lacking no matter how much you guys believe it is comprehensive. It doesn't even explain things like movement or spacing, which is crucial to even begin playing VF5. VF4evo tutorial produces players who don't know how to move around, who freeze up easily, who depend on LP too much, who doesn't have a clue about spacing, who doesn't know how to properly apply pressure, who just stand around waiting for the next thing to come so they can react with fuzzy or LP, who never attacks out of disadvantage, and otherwise get destroyed by vets. Only then will they think "oh wow, VF is totally not what I think it is."

    Anyways, good luck trying to learn VF with just in game tutorial+dojo mode. By the time you even reach a semi competent level, the game will have been long forgotten.
     
  5. Fishie

    Fishie Well-Known Member

    No idea about a joystick.
    A region free Asian version of VF5 will be released though so even if Sega decides not to do a specific Japanese release(looks like they will) it will be easily obtainable and playable by people in Japan.
     
  6. EmpNovA

    EmpNovA Well-Known Member

    So are you advocating not having a training mode at all besides free training?

    As from what I remember about 4:Evo the tutorial modes actually set up offensive and defensive sequences for every character. The concepts of fuzzy and ETEG are in 4:Evo tutorial...they tell you how to do them in an isolated instance, and then if you have a brain, you apply what you learned into a real VF match....not that hard.
     
  7. PurpGuy

    PurpGuy Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    PurpGuy
    Even if they aren't perfect, they are certainly better than nothing. Evo's training mode gave me enough of an idea about the game to not get totally slaughtered by Maddy. It was still slaughter, just not total slaughter.

    Training mode gave me enough of an idea of things to be able to keep up enough with him to actually learn something from him. If it wasn't for training mode, I would not have been able to learn anything from playing him, as I simply would not have the slightest idea of what was going on/what he was explaining to me.

    Reading vfdc gave me enough knowledge of the proper terminology to understand what training mode was saying. Whenever I read "Forced Choice Tactics" I said to myself, "Ah, Nitaku".

    So while elite players may think training mode is lacking, it is certainly far from worthless.
     
  8. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    The main part I disagree with is the ability to record actions for the CPU to play back in Dojo mode. IMO this is a CRITICAL aspect of the experience missing in the PS3 version of VF5 that I really, really miss from Evo.
     
  9. Jeneric

    Jeneric Well-Known Member

    If the 360 version only adds the Record/Playback function with 5 slots (or even just 3), that would make me 100% satisfied.

    The Record/Playback function was easily the best single player tool in Evo, there's close to nothing you couldn't set up on that one.
     
  10. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Dojo mode does need to at least duplicate what evo training had. I really have no idea why they implemented certain changes and left out others. This is the only thing that matters I believe. It's one of the tools to test out theories and answer questions, but most of the time it's much easier and faster to test things with a friend; which I know it's a problem but that's the only solution right now.


    I didn't say it's worthless. In fact, I even pointed out that evo tutorial mode allows you to see specific in game situations where something might be used. My point is that this creates a false impression to players on how to play this game and the direction that they should take in discovering the game system. The examples they provide are also too limited in scope to have any real impact on the overall level of a player.

    I would even go as far to say that listing techniques such as fuzzy guarding and eteg might even develop negative consequences in how the players look at VF. Emphasizing the importance of these techniques tells the players that you need to fuzzy guard or eteg when in fact, there are many other basic skills/options that you can employ to achieve sometimes better results.

    In fact, VF5's system is even less dependent on using these complex techniques. Players can achieve much more success on focusing on the minor details such as spacing, good timing, and making deliberate choices/decisions.

    In the end, all I'm saying is that learning something in training mode doesn't really prepare you for a real match where you will run into hundreds of situations not found in tutorial mode. Any knowledge that it can convey can be done better simply by asking more knowledgeable players on VFDC. You said that training mode prepared you against maddy, but I can tell you right now that maddy's game is largely based on beating LP options and beating etegs, both of which evo tutorial focuses on. It's even possible that if you simply played the game without those knowledge, you might have done better against him.

    No tutorial mode can train your reflexes nor train your ability to make decisions. They only provide a controlled environment where you can see an example of certain concept played out. It's simply not the same as a real match, and this is largely the problem that most of the US players are facing.

    Most people are simply not prepared for the pacing and speed that a real match plays at, and it's a problem if they think going back into tutorial mode or dojo mode is going to change that.
     
  11. hikarutilmitt

    hikarutilmitt Well-Known Member

    I didn't mean at all that it's a replacement for learning things outside of training mode, but merely as a great stepping stone for those just starting out. The advanced training sections for each character gave you a very basic grasp of how things work and what sort of timing on certain moves will need in certain situations (given, it's usually in those particular combos anyway) so that you think "well, if this will work here, maybe this will work here, or this, or this" etc until you've run through a large array of options open to you.

    I KNOW that I got better at hit confirmation because of some of the training not because of the particular situation itself but because I ended up drilling it into my head what I needed to recognize quickly for everybody. To get through those I had to get over my absolutely terrible hit confirmation ability and being able to use even one specific situation to learn that helped immensely.

    There will always be things you have to learn through playing and can't just read them and suddenly be able to do them. You can read how to do a standing 720 for that level 3 FAB, but that doesn't mean you can do it just because you know the trick to it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

    I've always said that hands down Evo had the absolute best training mode in any fighting game, even surpassing what I used to consider the best: SFEX+@ and SFEX2+. I learned more about move timing and what connects to what and how to adjust my gameplay for comboing and general distance adjustment by playing the hell out of both of those games (for 2D fighters, anyway) than I ever had before, and Evo did the same thing for 3D fighters, VF in particular.
     
  12. Garbage

    Garbage Well-Known Member

    Knowing they exist as a concept is a big hurdle though.
     
  13. Shoju

    Shoju Well-Known Member

    But that's where better AI comes in to help you put things into practice. Evo's AI,training mode and match replays helped me finally get the basics of VF which I'd struggled with since VF3. I was actually able to compete against more established players.
    Evo's AI is lacking in some ways but next gen consoles are supposed to be capable of more advanced AI. I don't know how good they can get it but if it teaches you good habits and forces you to mix things up it's doing something right.

    The practice mode needs to get it's record feature back, it's the most crucial feature in the mode. It tells me what beats what from any given situation, how difficult it is to escape traps/mixups I might what to implement and how to deal with things an opponent is using on me.
     
  14. Leonard_McCoy

    Leonard_McCoy Well-Known Member

    So what? Every input controller has a signature (which isn't an analogue one, of course :D).
    It is only a software problem. For example: if you plug in any PC USB keyboard into your 360, it gets correctly recognized and you can use it.
     
  15. hikarutilmitt

    hikarutilmitt Well-Known Member

    As in, it's "built into" the controller's hardware itself. They allow it to use generic USB keyboards for some reason, but controller have to have a specific key in the hardware to be able to be used.
     
  16. Leonard_McCoy

    Leonard_McCoy Well-Known Member

    It is Microsoft's decision to change that. After all, a keyboard is a controller, too (it even has one integrated). It is no hardware problem as M$ could easily allow the VHSG signature to be added to the 360's driver database, with which the stick would be fully recognized and usable.
     
  17. Okiron

    Okiron Active Member

    I don't think Krosoft will allow that =)
     
  18. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    I love it that some of these vets are downplaying the great training mode that was in vf4. Please raise your hand if that mode did not improve your gameplay? Exactly - that training mode is almost critical for a new player to improve their game quickly.
     
  19. Reznor

    Reznor Member

    Since I've been waiting for the 360 version
    It's great to hear all the good news.

    But to be honest I kinda doubt 360 joystick especialy the D pad and the trigger button.
    Played the PS3 version and the sticks works very well.
     
  20. djtortilla

    djtortilla Well-Known Member

    I do wish VF5 would include a better tutorial. Nothing beats playing against skilled players, but I wish they provided more for beginners.

    This website is a great resource and there are other sources of
    info, but I would wish they could put most of that information in the game.

    Providing tutorials for the techniques or at least video would be great.

    I think building an online community into the game for sharing info or video would be great.

    There is too much of a disconnect between playing the game on your own, and getting info from other resources
     

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