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Evo Ver.B Command List Updates

Discussion in 'Site News, Questions and Feedback' started by Myke, Nov 12, 2003.

  1. Bu_Jessoom

    Bu_Jessoom Well-Known Member

    So full move is 17 frames... Sounds reasonable /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif!
     
  2. Siyko

    Siyko Well-Known Member

    13 frames is initial kick... 4 frames later is the kick after it. What's hard to believe about that?
     
  3. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    the fact that double kick is elbow class, and single on it's own is even slower..

    swallow kick is NOT 17 frames..... otherwise it would be as slow as jeffry's knee... why on earth would you get a swallow kick guaranteed after [3]+[G]+[P] if it was knee class!?

    please tell me you are joking..
     
  4. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    [9]+[K] executes at 13 frames. Second [K] input would execute at 4 frames after the first [K] input is executed at 13 frames (I think that is what was meant by the 17 frames of execution for the second [K] input by Bu_Jasoom). Could you be mistaking that the [9]+[K][K] information on the movelist refers to both the first [K] input and the second [K] input?

    In addition, maybe more information than necessary, if you timed correctly [9]+[K][K] you are supposed to get 3 hits. Generally [9]+[K][K] on hit would give you a total damage of 35 points (1st hit gives you 15 point of damage, second hit misses, and third hit gives you 20 points of damage). Timed correctly second hit won't miss adding 41 points of damage overall (3rd hit damage is reduced, consider a mid-air hit)...I think.
     
  5. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    [ QUOTE ]
    TBBwolf_ said:

    please tell me you are joking..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Please tell us that you are.

    You're just reading the data incorrectly. There's nothing wrong with the exe times for the [9][K] and [9][K][K].

    It's not a 17 frame attack. The first part, which is the only part that matters, executes in 13 frames. The second part, while she's in mid-air, is the continuation if you press [K] again, and only takes 4 frames to execute. Basically, when the first part connects, the second is guaranteed.
     
  6. Bu_Jessoom

    Bu_Jessoom Well-Known Member

    Yes that's what I meant when I said full move /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. DSK is 17 in all, but it's 2 parts and the first part hits in 13 frames. If the first part hits, the second will hit after 4 frames, like what Myke, akai, and SiYkO said.
     
  7. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    i'm confused

    i set the CPU wolf to attack with db+k (-14 on guard), then got him to block straight afterward.

    i then did swallow kick on him after i blocked his kick but got my move guarded. i checked several times to see if it was my timing and got it out only when i blocked the tip of wolf's foot a couple of times. how can a 13 frame attack be so strict at -14? i also tried it against akira's dblpm, and was guarded. on a side note - i also found that moves like P+K fully charged with wolf will only allow you to get f+p crumble on fast recovery if you hit wolf by the tip of your fingers... now that's kindda off topic but the tip thinggy is weird.

    mainly - u sure that swallow kick is 13 exe? so it will be even against wolf's standard punch? it just seems illogical. especially as pai sometimes does a slight pause before jumping, somebody else on IRC tried it against jeffry's knee and still got blocked.

    i'm not convinced, something's wrong. i'd say it's atleast 14 frames elbow class or even 15. can someone else try this out?
     
  8. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    It works for me...timing is very important and I do not always get it out correctly in the middle of a real game. When playing against Akira I had trouble getting it to connect on guarantee situations (Akira's double palm).

    Once you block Akira's double palm....immediately release [G], quickly tap [9]+[K]. Sometimes we hold guard to long and that causes us to miss our guaranteed throws and hits. You might think it is 14 or 15 frames due to command input (such as can you input Akira's double palm command so that you can get it to connect as a hit in 12 frames?)
     
  9. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    eh?? ........... i will try again tonight.....

    i normally have no troubles with guaranteed moves in guaranteed dis adv. this move seems very odd. honestly it never seemed like 13 frames, i mean that's like gonna win low P even after blocked high P?? - that's too sick even for pai.
     
  10. BMF

    BMF Well-Known Member

    I never really questioned the 13f execution of her swallow kick until now. I tested some stuff out in training...and I couldn't minor counter Dbpm, or Jeff's knee I also couldn't beat an elbow after a guarded P with the swallow kick...

    EDIT:
    Seems like there's two versions of this move. One were she takes a small step, which is not 13f, and the 13f version. It seems like if you hold the kick button for a little bit she takes the small step.
     
  11. Siyko

    Siyko Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    BMF said:

    I never really questioned the 13f execution of her swallow kick until now. I tested some stuff out in training...and I couldn't minor counter Dbpm, or Jeff's knee I also couldn't beat an elbow after a guarded P with the swallow kick...

    EDIT:
    Seems like there's two versions of this move. One were she takes a small step, which is not 13f, and the 13f version. It seems like if you hold the kick button for a little bit she takes the small step.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My testing confirms this, the cutoff seems to be to hold K for 2 frames or less.
     
  12. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    i knew i wasnt going crazy!!

    /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    but when would the slow version be helpful anywayz, failed evading? - tis true tho i had never really questioned the swallow kick at all till now.

    it was Archangel who informed me originally about the movelist, and i started to wonder about it. i still havent been very sucessful with counter attacking -14. is it worth trying? i mean could you really get out the 13 frame swallow kick after a blocked high P in a real match? ~ that logically would be a real sick flow chart.

    with the amount of people having problems in these situations, it doesnt seem to be logically 13f still, i mean at -14, 13 frames should really be no problem at all!
     
  13. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    I messed around with Free Training, and find that i can get swallow kick to guarantee connect after blocking against double palm (recorded CPU to do double palm and hold G afterwards). However, unlike just using K to counter, I do not get a minor counter bonus...thus I assume that my swallow kick is connecting against double palm right at the 14th frame instead of 13th frame /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    So I look at 1/60th website and they have some interesting comments on the swallow kick. My Japanese tranlsation is limited, but there is an indication that there is a one frame requirement to get a correctly executed swallow kick....

    I will try to test this out when I get my Evo copy back.
     
  14. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    The problem with the [9][K] command as it also serves as the command for a forward jump assuming you hold onto the [K]. So, the engine won't process the single swallow kick until you release the [K]. So while the move executes in 13 frames, if you're adding uneccessary frames with the pressing of the [K], then it'll be impossible in the -13 or -14 counter situation. Ideally you just want one frame of [9]+[K] together.

    Similar thing occurs with Jacky's somersault kick if you just input it as [7][K], it almost always comes out slower. Instead, the somer can be input as [7][K]+[G] which will never be processed as a jumping input, and hence immediately go into the attack. Unfortunately, Pai cannot add the [G] to the swallow kick since there's a seperate attack with the [9][K]+[G] command.
     
  15. maddy

    maddy Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    akai said:

    I messed around with Free Training, and find that i can get swallow kick to guarantee connect after blocking against double palm (recorded CPU to do double palm and hold G afterwards). However, unlike just using K to counter, I do not get a minor counter bonus...thus I assume that my swallow kick is connecting against double palm right at the 14th frame instead of 13th frame /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif



    [/ QUOTE ]

    After spending some time in training mode,

    In order for a move to be hit on mc(minor counter), there has to be 1 extra frame. For example,

    when Akira blocks Sarah's [2]+[K],[K](-14 on block),Akira can get a garanteed [4][6][P], but it won't hit on mc due to lack of an extra 1 frame. If Lau blocks the same move and gets 14 frame advantage, his standing palm(13 frames) will hit on mc cause of 1 difference.

    So, theoratically speaking, Kage won't get a float with his upper(a 15 frame move) if there were a sweep that is -15 on block as upper will hit on normal hit (The move requires mc or Mc to be a launcher.)

    This explains why Jacky's [3][P],[P],[P] requires one extra frame to get a garanteed pounce afterwards.

    ([3][P],[P],[P],[8][P] doesn't work on +13 even though the move comes out in 13 frames.)
     
  16. Nybec

    Nybec Well-Known Member

    Breaking news:
    I fooled aroung with Vanessa and found her [6_]+[K] in
    Offensive stance to be cancelable /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  17. sanjuroAKIRA

    sanjuroAKIRA Well-Known Member

    I remember Zero-Chan showed this to IceCold at Evo2k3...basically it's been more a curiosity in play for us than a wicked tool. Vanessa's got lots & lots of good stuff.
     
  18. Aoi_Mei

    Aoi_Mei Well-Known Member

    Wolf´s [2][K] +4 on normal hit? Should it be -4?
     
  19. Aoi_Mei

    Aoi_Mei Well-Known Member

    Little question. Let´s say that if I crouch under last punch in Vanessas offensive [4][6][P][P][4][P], how much advandage I get? Is there anyway to count these, or do I just have to go to free training to find out?
    There´s so many moves like this to try out...
     
  20. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    [ QUOTE ]
    Izha said:


    Wolf´s [2][K] +4 on normal hit? Should it be -4?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Wolf Errata: Yeah it should be -4 frames

    About Vanessa's [4][6][P][P][4][P] ... since you ducked the attack it is considered to be a "whiffed attack." I would guess Vanessa to be around -30 frames (taking into consideration "the amount of frames the move takes from beginning to end" - ("the executution frames" + "attack potential frames")
     

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