Discussion from "VF5R for console effort" thread

I always thought R was built from an upgraded arcade board. Won't they have to make the port from the ground up? I mean, assuming they go through with it.

 

First of all, we have no reason to believe there will even by a VF6. Actually, there are plenty of reasons to believe there won't be one any time soon. For instance, why rebuild the game engine from scratch when there is no graphical or game-play incentive to do so? VF4 and 5 were pretty similar, and after VF5R there is even less room for refinement. Also, they'd have to rebuild the massive library of customizations they've built up, as well as rebuild most of the game's resources from scratch. Why in God's name would Sega even think about doing this when they still have huge untapped markets that haven't even gotten a taste of the work they've put into 5R?

And you know, when you think about it, for all intents and purposes 5R is VF6. It has two new characters, an updated move-list, new arenas, enough added customization to equate to a complete rebuild of the game's resource library. The only reason it's 5R is because they didn't rebuild the engine from scratch. But I ask you, what exactly is there for them to rebuild that could possibly add significant enhancement the game? I think they choose to continue updating VF5 because they really had nothing to add that justified an engine rewrite. I think this will remain the case for some time. In other words, if we don't get 5R it's still gonna be a looong wait for VF6.

Now, it's true Sega did say no with the facebook campaign, but it wasn't an absolute "no, never, we outright refuse to ever put this game on consoles, end of story". I think the fact they told us off was most likely due to our approach. Bombarding their facebook page probably was not the most diplomatic approach we could've taken. Clearly, what Kamaage is doing is being receive much more positively than unsolicited spam from a horde of pissed off gamers. I think the facebook campaign was really the embodiment at the frustration the international VF community has built up, due to being treated like second class citizens. But it wasn't anything that had much chance of a constructive outcome. What Kamaage is doing does, so I think we should all get behind it and support him.

I also like to say I don't think it's fair to assume VF5R wouldn't be competitive in the market if released today. The fact of the matter is, if anything is responsible for VF5's failure, it was poor marketing. The game was presented as antiquated, generic, and unapproachable for casual gamers. That is surely a death sentence in today's gaming climate. If Sega marketed 5R half as well as they marketed Bayonetta, I seriously doubt they couldn't make it a hit. Or at the very least, more than profitable enough to justify the port. And really that's all that's important. As long as Sega's VF5R efforts don't just put them further in the hole, it will encourage them to give better support for VF outside of Japan in the future.

Edit: You know something has been bugging me. The general perception around here seems to be that VF5 was a failure sales wise. But VF5 managed to sell about 750,000 copies across both the PS3 and Xbox 360. Although not stellar, it certainly wasn't an abysmal failure. Actually, when you consider that it's main audience was on the PS3, despite the fact the PS3 version lacked an online mode, and the PS3 had a much smaller user base at the time, I think you could argue it did relatively well. How could Sega not have made a profit on a game that sold 750,000 copies that was only a port to begin with? Do the sales of VF5 actually have anything to do with why we haven't gotten a 5R port? I'm begging to wonder.

 

On their facebook, SEGA said "no current plans". While it does look doubtful it was a hardly a no and when you consider that it took them two weeks just to find out what Virtua Fighter 5 R was, it's hard to take anything they say seriously.

 

HI KAAMAGE GOOD LUCK I HOPE SEGA AGRESS VF5R ON CONSOLES!!!!

 

sorry foe my bad spelling im just hyped!!!!

 

sorry for my horrible spelling but yeah anyways VF5R on consoles PLEASE SEGA!!!!!

 

Huge untapped market? You mean the foreign players? The VF players outside japan are very passionate about the game but I dont think it costitutes for a huge market nowadays.

By that same logic, VF4 EVO would actually be VF5 and then VF 5 should be VF6 and R should be VF7. Right?

4 and 5 are actually very similar. Alot different from 1,2,3, (4,5). I can assure you that 6 will be ALOT different. Quite a few players thought 4 and 5 were too similar. It would have been risky for Sega to rework the system after FT. If the new system wasn't a hit, it might have sank VF for a long time just like Tekken 4 did. On the other hand, there was backlash from the other end of the spectrum.. ie the game being too similar.

No intelligent company will say "no, never". Its just bad for business.
Before the FB camapign, I actually received an email from my contact at SOJ home division saying "Keep bothering us" and I was told recently from that same person, since that campaign, Sega has received about 5 emails a day regarding VF5r for console. What's happening with Kamaage is most likely a test to gauge the market for the game. As for the yelling and screaming, I didn't endorse or recommend we should do that. More along the lines of make our voices be heard.

Thats actually not what I heard from my contact at SOJ.

You want to point me to those sales numbers for VF5? I've never seen anywhere it sold 750k. I know Xbox version sold about 50k outside japan and 20k in japan (70k copies) as of march 09.
The fans asked for an xbox version as well as online. Sega gave them online and a pretty damn good one at that but sold only 70k copies. So now the fans are begging for 5r and Sega is supposed to believe it will sell more than that?

Sounds like the boy who cried el blaze.


Btw what do you think would be a smart thing to do for a company in segas position with the current situation of the Yen?

 

The potential market is as big as the entire international fighting game community and beyond. If Sega wants VF to get big outside of Japan, they're going to have to reach out to people who don't already play the game.

Only if the difference between VF4 EVO was as great as the difference between 5 and 5R (it's not). And EVO actually got a console release.

That is what one would assume. But that doesn't mean they'll start working on it any time soon.

Ok, so in other words, Sega is checking the interest level for 5R? If so, I fail to see the reason for your pessimism. That means they're seriously considering releasing it.

Fair enough. I wasn't ever privy to the details of that exchange.

PS3, Xbox 360

Why of course, the smartest thing to do is quit releasing games outside of Japan. After all, what good is it to sell games to foreigners whose money is only worth 95% as much as it used to be. Clearly, they will make much more money by ignoring them altogether.

 

.... (it was).

 

Ah... ok, I guess you're right. I never played vanilla VF4, so I wasn't aware that they actually added two characters and a ton of customizations in that version. But, thanks to Wikipedia, now I know. But either way, it still got released on consoles.

 

But VF4FT (though a smaller update) still didn't. And 4FT was the culmination of everything VF up to that point. It was the most refined and balanced version of VF, possibly the most balanced fighting game, in arcade history. In my opinion 4FT is the single best fighting game of all time and nothing else (including 5R) even comes close. There are lots of subtle differences to 4FT, movement system changes, A and B type moves, new outfits and presentation. It was a significant enough upgrade that it wasn't just another revision of EVO but a full update. 4FT painfully never made it to consoles.

Sure getting 4EVO, and it's amazing console port features, was great at the time. But that memory has long since faded. And I actually own a 4FT set up (that I bought used years ago) and I've played a lot of matches on my home cabinet so I can certainly appreciate the brilliance of 4FT. I'm still quite bitter that the peak of the VF series, 4FT, was never realized on consoles and many of the members here never got to fully experience the game.

So yeah, while EVO got released on consoles, an even better version of VF4 did not. And now, just like with 4FT, we are facing the same problem with AM2 holding back the better version of VF, 5R, because they've continue to mismanage the series year after year.

 

Sega just needs to copy the stuff Capcom currently does to hype SF4 & SSF4. Input all the training modes 4 Evo had. They don't even need to breadcast commercials. Some good trailers will do the trick. 5r is already known by most. If gaming websites give the game good preveiws and good marks it will sell. Also the dark look that makes the game look more appealing, will make the game much more interesting than the plastic look of 5. Also different game modes like 4 evo had but easier to access. A good online lobby, just copy the Tekken6 & SF4 one and customize it a bit. Or just make it like playing VF offline with stage select & char select + I dont want to play with this guy kick button and all would be fine. If sega doesnt want any work they could just make a PC linux version and it would still sell.

Capcom even makes Anime for the SF fans.

 

4FT should have been released on PSN / Xbox Live the same time as Tekken 5 DR. Sega lost so many chances to revive the franchise, plus so many bad decisions over the course of this generation.
And it continues now with that "all star racing wtf" featuring VF and Shenmue characters (i consider it an INSULT to hardcore Sega fans), and Sonic 4 (omg, episodic, downloadable crap, this is so never gonna work).

 

Well, the boy who cried el blaze actually was telling the truth in the end I think he used this link.

Virtua Fighter 5 unofficial sales

Not saying it is right, but you got any better source? The numbers you listed in your post, I think, was the first month or two of sales. The ones listed in the link is ~ 2 years worth of sales.

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edit: I think most people signing the petition is saying: hey, give us the opportunity to purchase the game and we will. Is it the "smart thing?" I don't know. That is not my job and I don't really like to imagine I am working for Sega and know what is in their best interest. I assume they thought their actions/decisions the last 10 years were the "smart things" to do also. </div></div>


From one perspective the sales of VF are HORRIBLE

UFC 2009 Mixed Martial Arts Fighting Game Sales

FNR4 Sales

I know, VF, Tekken, SC, SF,BB,DOA, MK, will always have their hardcore fans (I'm one of them), but maybe these fighter are all last generation fighters, and maybe THQ's UFC, and EA's upcoming MMA represent the next gen of fighting game, DAMN look at those sales I think by now THQ's UFC + EA fight night round 4 have sold more in less than a year than all the other fighting games put together. And if they haven't, at five million copies sold, they're close

Maybe Sega's executives have peeped that fact. VF features mixed martial arts fighting, UFC 2009 features mixed martial arts fighting.[/size] VF sells less than a million copies in multiple years time and UFC sells 3 million copies in less than a year's time. [/size] I know UFC is a combat "sport" game, but it appeals to players who go for fighting games as well.

I know they are different games, but... maybe UFC 2009, MMA, FNR4 represent the future of fighting games (look at their sales) and Tekken, DOA,BB,KOF,MK,SC represent the past, last gen fighters

anyone care for a game of Pacman

 

I don't think arcade fighters are done yet.

Although simulation does look like the future.

Same thing happened with Sports games in general. Arcade style died out and it's pretty much all simulation nowadays.

 

You cannot compare VF style beat em ups with games that have backing through real turnaments & tv shows. UFC and boxing are known worldwide, have real martial arts practitioners and the stuff is shown worldwide on tv and you can buy tickets for the real stuff. Of course it sells much better.

U have to compare it with Tekken & SF those have 1.5M and VF only 0.5. But 500.000 x 50 is = 25 Million. But it's Segas own fault that it didnt sell as well as the others. Just take a look at capcom how they promote the game.

 

Anyways, besides my comments and input. I wrote an email today to Andrew Reiner from Game Informer on his facebook. In the email i wrote about the past times i've sent emails to game informer, i talked about the success we had in developing a 100 page document that sega is looking at right now and how we're in the middle of preparing a 500 page document to be presented before Sega executives. I linked him to this site and asked him to share the good news with people around the office. Cross your fingers, hopefully our story gets heard and published out in the magazine.

 

I think simulation is the in thing right now because the current generation of game consoles is so much more adept at it than past generations have been. But I have confidence that the people who get pulled into gaming by the simulation angle will eventually gravitate toward games with better game-play, until their demands for game-play are as stringent as ours. I just wish it would happen a little faster...