Defense with GT

Looking at some of these posts, I think it'd be better if people realised that Fuzzy and CD Fuzzy are done at different frames.

-1- -3 you can simply duck the throw but at -4 and -5 you need to input a Crouch Dash because you can't simply Fuzzy.

GT: Awesome post. Never thought about that. Thanks for the heads up on this!

 

Goh can get throw sabaki on any command with P+K+G in it. Roll will also cause him to get NH by CH launchers.

Yes, but I didn't add it because sabaki'ing high and low punch in nitaku is kinda useless.

 

I see, thank you

 

Thanks GT ! I never thought about a K cancel to cause a throw to whiff ^^

About Goh : The TE after 6P+K+G is it to deal with a delayed throw or is it always buffered in every P+K+G throw sabaki attempt to cover a failed throw sabaki ?
By the way anyone knows about the frames of 6+P+K+G ?
At -6 Goh can duck under H and H*, but I dont' really know the ducking frames or while standing ones, is there a way to find out in dojo mode ?

 

Maybe he meant P+K+G?

 

Yes, GT reminded it :

Meaning you get the throw sabaki with 4 and 6P+K+G inputs as well.

 

Hum OK, but I guess that unlike the usual sabakies (that you can enter as ASAP) with this one you have to time the input of the 6P+K+G so that the throw sabaki connects at the right time to sabaki the throw attempt ?

I have to experiment with this OS, does the roll duck throws at small disadvantages or will it always get thrown ? I guess it's the second

So I would rather go with 4P+K+G + TE and try to time it so that the throw sabaki can happen, rather than the Roll, I don't see advantages of doing 6+P+K+G IF the roll never duck throws.

@nowhere: it's rather to cover a failed throw sabaki that you enter a TE

 

Ahhh, thats what that means. I totally forgot that Goh has that option select. Powerful one at that too. Im too rusty :/

 

@Chibitox:
The throw sabaki is definitely tighter (I have more sucess with it at -10 than after 6K ? I have to work on that ^^")
6P+K+G can duck at -6 but not at -8.
4P+K+G is ok for a mid nitaku against P starters and 46K covers knee starters but seem a little bit slow (I always had difficulties to get a sabaki from this one also, often because a too early input ^^")

 

You mean 64K?

 

Brad has a "sabaki" for mid kicks. Also you may put a throw escape attempt while doing it.

Nice post btw, also agree with your wolf list. If high are in, you may consider to add something else in your list (there are some high combo starter for some characters).

 

64K ? I'm talking about Goh's sabaki 46K

 

Oh ya, we were thinking about the same move. I forgot the input for a second. Sorry for the waste of space.

 

Awesome, there is finally a purpose in doing Goh's 6p+k+g roll, thanks!

 

I prefer to re-read this as: "Practically useless in a sensible fight. Mileage in your local meta may vary"

 

I'll just add that for eileen K~G cancel I found a few little something somethings that might be useful for the other kick cancel chars. In the situations where you've evaded a throw due to the kick cancel animation you are able to get different whiff punishment moves based on your disadvantage. I'll chart it out for easy reading. Note that if you use moves with the given frame exe you will get a minor counter hit. See brackets for what eileen could do for example, since it's a minor counter hit some things are available that aren't normally as options.

-5 --> 16f punishers (4K for 25 dmg and +6 sideturn or 6P+KP 34 dmg into cancels)
-6 --> 15f punishers (P+K, PK 49 dmg and +4 or 4K+G 26 dmg and +2 or K for 25 dmg and down)
-7 --> 14f punishers (6PP 31dmg)
-8 --> 13f punishers (4PPK 43 dmg)
-9 --> 12f punishers (2P or PK)

Also note that you can pre buffer your punish for if you happened to evade the throw, as you won't get a CH if they choose to attack since the initial kick will still be in it's cancel frames so you just get a NH if you guessed wrong. Very little reason not to be preloading your buffer window with the best possible punish given the situation.

 

More on this tech with K~G cancel chars. You can't use this tech at -8 against 13f moves, you'll get CH even if you try to use the fastest cancel possible. You also can't use this tech at -9 against 14f moves, you'll get CH there also. At -7 you'll get CH by 12f moves (Pai 3P+K )and at -6 you'll get CH by 11f moves.

Frames where you get CH still

-9 --> 14f moves CH (most elbows)
-8 --> 13f moves CH (akira's elbows)
-7 --> 12f moves CH (pai's 3P+K)
-6 --> 11f moves CH
-5 --> 10f moves CH (DS Vane's 3P)

 

Interesting. I havent seen the KG technique used since VF3. back then it was -mostly- used after blocking a rising kick (huge disadvantage), to deny a throw escape, which will cause a whiff. glad to see it on FS.

update: seems we've been discussing this before: http://virtuafighter.com/threads/kg-fake-kick-to-avoid-some-throw-situations.16114/

heres a nice movie showing it: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23525718/highlight/272961

 

http://virtuafighter.com/threads/evade-cancel-throw-escape.16678/

Blackstar, that is the thread you seek. Read all of it. The specific frame data that covers the differences between 866 and 833 is in there.