Defense against Lei Fei

Yeah, Leis' + looks like the Hadouken. It's a double-fisted Sabaki, and sabaki's an single-fisted elbow/punch. It's also got a VERY wide window. IE, if he does a non -counterable move (IE - ) and you try to counter w/ a punch or elbow, he will have time to do the +, it will Sabaki, crumble, and allow for a follow-up. That's a total of about 80pts damage, and is painful. Unlike Aoi's same move (which Sabaki's) it will crumble on hit, and will hit every time it Sabaki's. Aoi's MUST Sabaki to crumble, and a hit just gives a few frames advantage. All in all, it's one of Lei Fei's best moves.

is just that - pressing back and kick, (Shun will do a kick and drop back a step) and then a punch. The punch has good distance, and crumbles on hit. A pounce is then guaranteed. The first kick knocks them on their ass (on hit), so they've got to struggle even to get a block. I assume people could get a dodge in, but the move isn't used that much, so a lot of times you catch people off guard with it.

If you do the adverse you come in for a much shorter range, double-legged low kick. Not bad, but not great and you're on the ground, so you'll lose a DP.

It is a new move in Evo, btw.

 

Hey pro,
would u possibly be kind enough as to describe the appearance of leifei's bread & butter moves?
And if i may push my luck further /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif how abt how to defend against these moves? Thanks a million!

 

Sure, why not. I've been killing myself at work, so I can use a break.

The kicker about LeiFei, is that his positions give away his possible moves. However, a good player is quick enough to go into any stance, and pull off another move. Getting past the idea of "He's in that stance, this is coming next" is the first part - unless of course you're just quick enough to catch the stances.

As w/ before, one really strong move is:
+ - crumbles on hit, and always hits on a sabaki. Sabaki window is wide. I find that people use this the most after:
- This is the combo where turns his back, and comes back w/ punches. The last is double-fisted, and NOT throw counterable. If you try to throw, or counter w/ a punch or elbow, yer dead.
- also not throw counterable
And finally, when tech-rolling, especially against the punching characters. You won't see much of this against Wolf, Pai, Akira, Sarah, etc

Other normal stance stuff:
- not throw counterable - distance is way to far. Execution is very fast.

+ - quick, strong, allows follow ups. Usually wins in a "stand-off". It is, hwoever, throw counterable.

+ - no sabaki, but crumbles on hit. It hits high, so you can duck it. Note that he pulls back just enough to where a punch against him will whiff.

IN Stance Stuff:
- this will stagger, and the follow up will float, then he'll have his way with you. If you dodge it, come in w/ something mid and strong. He won't have time to go to the IN stance to reverse it. Also note, that this is probably Lei's best low attack... he's only got a few. This is one of the few cases where you would want to duck w/o prejeduice.

+ - this will stagger, opening you up for just about anything w/ lame frame status. Beware!

+ - This will not only evade, but is also a full crescent sweep. What's worse - it won't knock you over. It'll just set you up for what's next. If you try to counter w/ a punch, he CAN go straight to IN stance (even when it's blocked, mind you). If he hits, and you try to punch/elbow counter, he'll whack you with , which stomach crumbles

DM Stance Stuff:
+ - strong, not throw counterable. Normally followed up w/ .

- this takes him to IN stance, floats on MC, and execution is surprisingly fast. Strangely enough, not used as often as you'd think.

That should get ya somewhere. Anyone else is more than welcome to add to this.

And of course, the Sen Shippo - he should never use this fully charged against someone who can reverse punches.

 

wow! tats some good stuff, once again thanx a million for your effort /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Anyone else has any info to contribute?

 

Lei's DM stance move which I think is the "shen sippo" gaijin punch was talking about is very good. It's generally called the arrow punch on here.
3 uses---

use number 1. It's a long range mid poke that's very safe if blocked. It's not at all counterable. If you can do a fast change into DM stance (d+P+K+G) you can then quickly press P+K for a surprise attack with it from a mile away. It's just a small chunk of damage, but it gives frame advantage on any hit. With that advantage (plus the fact that you end up really close to them) you can immediately force a 50/50 guessing game - throw or f,f+P (palm). 99% of their attacks will lose to the palm, but if they choose not to attack and just guard/evade, your throw will snag them.

use number 2: When fully charged, this move staggers a guarding opponent and crumples you on any hit for a free combo (the good damaging followup to use is b+P,P). Normally charge attacks not only take forever to come out, they're easily dodged if you have reflexes and know which direction to dodge in. But this move has a weird tracking property and will crush early dodges, they can only dodge it with pretty good timing. So don't be afraid to bust out the full-charge version.

use number 3: When you connect a crumple combo on the opponent (usually any move that crumples followed by b+P,P) ... you can quickly enter [DM] stance and do the arrow punch after a half second... and if the opponent techrolled after that b+P,P combo... your arrow punch will hit them in the back for an unstrugglable backstagger. You can follow with a bunch of different moves to create a painful combo.

Some other lei stuff:

, (normal stance) - this is a two hit combo that floats the opponent for a free combo every time. It's average speed and it ducks low under jabs if you can predict them. Best of all, since it's a two hit combo... you can create mindgames by trying for it. If the first punch hits, do the second and follow with your free combo (in evo, that's d+P --> df+P+K,P).
If the first hit is blocked, the opponent will be fearing the second hit and will be blocking. You can then do a throw (df+P+G is your best).

- this is lei fei's equivalent of an elbow (most characters have a f+P that is 14 frames, only a little slower than your fastest punch). Lei fei's is also 14 frames, it pushes them back and does a decent chunk of damage. Use it when you have frame advantage (like after that arrow punch hits or after you block your opponent's safe moves).. it will beat most attacks because of its speed, and if it's blocked you're pretty safe.

- this is a slow puntkick that causes a heavy ass stagger animation on any hit. It has bad recovery if blocked but its base damage is 30 pts (as high as you'll see almost any move in VF get) and on top of the 30-45 pts of damage you'll get for a hit... you'll get that stagger. If you hold kick after the puntkick, you will go into independent stance and you'll have much safer recovery. You can then use any independent stance option you like. You can do , from the stance and hit them out of the stagger pretty reliably before they can struggle and guard. You can do + and float them (it's a little slower but it's still a good idea to try) and once you get them floating do PP[hesitate a split second],KK.

You can also use the stagger to set up other stuff... for example if they struggle and guard you could throw them.

+ - GP mentioned this briefly, its main use is after the opponent is knocked into the wall and staggered (like try f,f+P against someone whose back is against the wall... then an immediate uf+K). You'll get a nice wall combo float from the uf+K which you can follow with whatever you like.

X

After PP, you can do a few things.
Safe option - just press P again for a weak 2 handed hit.
Less Safe option, but fast - let lei fei go into [IN]dependent stance automatically, then press K,K to do a double jumping kick for decent damage+knockdown.
Risky and slow option (but still very good) - let lei fei go into [IN]dependent stance and then do d+K, (pause), K. That's the powerful low kick stagger GP mentioned, then a standing kick that floats them high. From the high float you can get a bunch of combos. The easiest is to just do [IN]K,K.

- your best throw, sets up a free and damaging combo. The best combo is to do your dodge attack kicks (tap up, then press P+K+G, then K) ... then once they're flattened by the second hit of the kicks, you can get a df+K stomp if they don't tech roll.

If this combo is tough for you to do consistently... do instead to float them a little, then press + to complete the combo.

 

It seems like Lei Fei has some pretty fast, damaging and safe attack options from the response so far, maybe if i cant beat him, i shd start using him! /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

So are there any general weakness that we can capitalise on? Cuz while the dojo says to keep him close, i find that Lei Fei players whups my ass like The Rock even while in close.

 

Up close, just block and attack. I know who you are playing with. Try not to throw him but rather do your+more often to try to launch him as he cant block when in any stance.

 

Well, it really depends on who you're using. I'd say Lei Fei is a bit more vulnerable to Akira, Pai, and to a lesser extent Sarah. Remember, he can't reverse/sabaki any kicks unless his back is turned, and no double-fisted/double-legged attacks. You just need to know what to do when.
sig...
A couple of things I can think of:
- the first turns his back, the second one sabaki's almost anything, and eats the rest (no joke - it's strong). If you block the 2nd one, anything low will win - this includes crescents. W/ Lion, Vanessa, Aoi - I just do the standard +. W/ Jacky, Sarah, Kage, etc. the old + works well. With Pai, I use, and with Shun I use . Remember, there are some high punches that sabaki elbows/punches/kicks soon to follow. Don't screw around - just attack low.

Dodge the Sen Shippo - it'll save you a lot of headaches.

If you dodge his , depending on distance, you might be able to get a throw in.

If you block or get hit by:
DS+
NS
and to a lesser extent you're at a disadvantage frame-wise.

+ (turns around and uses his back to attack) is NOT throw-counterable. He can then go to the sabaki- I mentioned earlier.

+ which looks very similar to the move above (except he evades a bit on the first step) is throw-counterable, and he's got his back-turned. If you're playing Shun, you get 5 free DPs.

I'm sure others will add more, but that should get you going for now.