Damage problems in VF5R

Yeah, my bad, watched the video again and he OM'ed first. That "combo" is still a make two mistakes and you're dead situation (first mistake getting side countered by a 45 frame move, second mistake not struggling), which imho is just fine for vf.

 

I guess my question is: how are the people who have actually played the game receiving the notion of huge damage potentials? I've only heard from Reno so far and he seems cool with it. Keep in mind, he actually PLAYS the game.

Personally, I don't mind the idea for a bunch of reasons.

sidebar: I think it's hilarious that nothing ever changes when a new version of VF is released (as far as this community is concerned). We're really just a bunch of in-fighting, whiny bitches when you break it all down.

 

no Reno, see, we should play competitive VF like they used to do with Smash Brothers

NO ITEMS AKIRA ONLY <s>FINAL DESTINATION</s> SANCTUARY

 

I think it's quite ironic, not to mention hypocritic for some.

When Tekken 6 videos came out many VFers or VFer wannabees ridiculed the game, saying all those 70% bounce/wall combos are ridiculous and broken. Truly, many Tekken players also complained about the changes. But now you see similar changes taking place in VF and all of sudden complaining against Tekken-esque combo is a heresy.


About VF2: Yes I was a VF2 junkie as well but I have no problem admitting that IT WAS A BROKEN GAME! MORE BROKEN THAN TEKKEN! If you don't realize how broken VF2 was then you are either in denial or never played against broken Lau or Akira players to realize how broken the game was. There is a reason AM2 fixed all those 8+ hit 80%+ Lau combos and broken Akira option-select techniques. Going back to VF2 is just no-no.

Granted, I haven't played VF5R and there is no question I will play the game when I can. But there is also no question that the game has been changing. And given that Tekken IS quite popular in Japan now, it's not a stretch of imagination to think that VF is turning intentionally to become more like Tekken. (You are blind if you don't realize VF5 has been more Tekkenized compared to VF4 already.)

If you have no problem with the changes taking place, that's fine. A lot of the Japanese players apparently love Tekken 6 and its extended combos despite complaints from a significant number of players who prefer T5DR. But if some people prefer to complain, let them, don't be a thought police.

 

The issue with a lot of the types of posts above is that they 1) lack the proper context and 2) confuse something different with something unfair.

For example...the initial thread talks about Jeffry's 113 point damage combo as a problem. How is that a problem when Jeffry already has a combo similar to that in damage in VF5 and was still considered by most magazines and elite players to be C-tier?? Clearly, it is not his damage per se that's the problem.

It is NOT a fact that combos "should" be toned down. VF2 and VF3 combos took far more damage than those in VF4 and VF5 did, and plenty of people like VF2 and VF3.

What is definitely happening is that Sega is changing the system. Avoiding walls is now much more important than it was in VF4 and VF5. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Some people will like it, some people won't, but that's also the way it is about ring outs leading to instant death. It's not necessarily good or bad that there ring outs just that it's not necessarily good or bad that wall combo damage has increased. People will adjust to the changes(and those who can't will whine in online forums).

The important thing is not that X character can do a 120 point damage combo...the important thing is whether ALL characters can inflict similar damage (and if not, whether they are balanced in another way). I've already stated that there seems to be a few notable imbalances, like Jean's wall combos, but on the whole, all characters have high damage wall combos and so the new system feels fair to me.

Different, yes, unfair, generally no (though no doubt VF5R can and will be further balanced).

 

I cant wait for Alpha 3 like combos. SUPER COMBO!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmtZZMM1C4A&fmt=18

As far as this video goes, those look like two pretty good players to begin with. Secondly, that Jeffry landed TWO ~120 dmg combos in that match and it still went the distance, every character has different strengths and weaknesses, Jeffry is slow and very powerful.

Taka has a 70 dmg throw and looks a lot faster than Jeff in general. I really don't think we can know anything too firmly until WE actually get to play R and decide for ourselves.

Regarding that video that was posted, I think those are two excellent players and thus, they look very dangerous. Just looked like higher level play with the throw escapes and what not.

 

Hyun, I must respectfully disagree. I'm not in denial that VF2 was a broken game. It was, without question, a super FUN game. Remember that 2.1 removed some of the more "broken" elements, but that being said, the parts that we're "broken" were also extremely hard to do. It took a lot of practice and time invested to pull off iai combos, or do successful multiple senbons, or even being able to have a tight m-UpKnP rush with Lau. These were not trivial elements and they were reserved to those who put in the time to learn the techniques.

When we're looking at damage as a comparison to VF2, you don't need to look at the difficult and crazy combos. Sarah's d+KK --> High Pounce on MC took half your bar. Jacky's MC Knee --> Kickflip took half your bar. Simple combos, requiring very little skill took a ton of your life bar - a lot more than people have grown accustomed to in VF4 and VF5. Tech rolling has also played a large role in reducing damage from combos since VF2/3.

So, when I mention VF2 as an analog to what we're seeing in these VF5R clips, it's not really about going "back to VF2", it's simply recognizing that VF2 had damage potential that was off the charts compared to VF4 and VF5. And VF2/3 were extremely popular in the arcades and subsequently on the Dreamcast - people loved these games, nostalgically adore these games, and no one really had a problem with the damage they took while playing (in support of Ice-9's comment quoted above). You simply got up and moved on with it, hoping to pound your opponent with something equally devastating.

 

Not all or even most of us though. There are only a select few here who are complaining.
Sadly though, there is some truth to the in-fighting... but it's a fighting game community... people here love to fight, lol.

The saying "History repeats itself." applies here too. Yet another VF game and yet another group of people pissed/pleased. One group of people will stay, another one will leave claiming that this new VF sucks and they wont play VF ever again.

My suggestion: let's all hold e-hands and e-sing Kumbaya /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Ignore that combo, the rest of his game has picked up. Maybe he's done being uncomfortable with the Lau changes and doesn't have to think so much when using the new moves, but the rest of his game has improved. From these vids anyway.

Truth.

The problem is, some of those who are complaining seem to be trying to sway the general public on their thinking. As though they're the thought police. Like with this sky is falling shit. Let the game have a little more time before saying either way it's good or bad. It's going both ways right now. Those who are fine with it or are impartial are being told they're wrong, and those who are claiming the damage is wrong are being slammed for it too.

Right now, I view it as though we've grown comfortable with some character's tier placements, and now that they may be shifting we don't know how we feel about it.

 

I think you're right. They are probably trying to make the wall more like the edge of a ring. You won't get Rung out hence lose right away but there is a damn good chance you will die soon if you hit the wall but only against someone who knows the combo.

 

Hopefully I'll have to change my sig to "Cheesy wall combos since 2009."

 

It's not about complaining,Reno. It's about some ideas and advice to keep VF forward!! I don't care about how much damage can be caused by wall combo, but at least give one chance, or even just a little for another opponent to deal with these situation. For example, "STRUGGLE"!! Otherwise, all I can do is just let my hands out of stick and watch myself body without any idea? "Balance" and "competitive" is the reason why I'm interested about VF. Beside, I believe no one here would like to see VF get gross like other fighting games. I still have confidence that AM2 is going to fix these problem just like Myke said before, right now it's just the initial version.
Finally, no matter you are the only person who has played VFR here, I think you still own gl0ry an apology. VFDC is a good place for anyone to share his opinion, not only you...

 

There will always be ways for those dedicated to finding fighting game flaws, whether designed or accidental, to score massive damage. There is almost always a counter. There is still some skill involved for those who get the hits, and in some cases a lack of skill for those who put themselves in harm's way.

A good player will adapt and grow, a bad player will complain and stagnate.

Gern made a good point about Jeff being a HW. Jeff may only get one chance at one of those huge combos, so just vary your style and don't make that mistake to provide an opening. Strategy is still more prevalent in VF than any other fighter and it makes the game GREAT IMO.

Seems some people want to be able to ppp their way thru any situation or play every match the same way without ever being punished for it. Happily (for me at least) that died with VF2.
And if a player lives for that one super string with no other skills, they usually die looking for it anyway.

 

I don't often post -- but I just have to remind everyone that, even though the damage was kicked up a notch, this is VF. At its heart it's still the game we've played for well over 10 years, and will continue to play.

Sure, R looks different -- but it also looks like it will be a lot of fun with a bunch of new stuff to learn.

I've only ever seen one player 'retire' from VF because he was unhappy with the direction of the series, and the VF community was worse off because of it. So, I hope that doesn't happen again with R.

I am really looking forward to the higher overall combo damage. With VF4/5 making a comeback after your opponent had taken 75% of your bar was/is very difficult. It would take 2 sometimes 3 mistakes on their part which you capitalize on to even the score. With R, it looks you will only need to capitalize on 1 or 2 mistakes. I think it will lead to a more exciting game. Of course the pressure will be on not to be the first one to make a mistake

 

Kumbaya, tony! They (noobs) just have to learn how to guard the attack, or learn evade the attack (ETEG?) so they don't suffer the consequences of a BIG wall combo! And who will join VFDC because of this? because you forgot.

 

You do get a chance. By staying the fuck away from a wall.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Otherwise, all I can do is just let my hands out of stick and watch myself body without any idea? "Balance" and "competitive" is the reason why I'm interested about VF. Beside, I believe no one here would like to see VF get gross like other fighting games. I still have confidence that AM2 is going to fix these problem just like Myke said before, right now it's just the initial version.</div></div>

Everyone can do 80-100 combos, and 110-120 combos with walls. Seems balanced to me!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finally, no matter you are the only person who has played VFR here, I think you still own gl0ry an apology. VFDC is a good place for anyone to share his opinion, not only you...</div></div>

No, I don't owe anyone an apology, especially to someone posting a knee-jerk reaction to something in a game that he hasn't played. Banning something in a game is the stupidest god damn thing you can ever do, and just suggesting a ban after THREE WEEKS of play is idiotic, especially after VF3. I wonder what the hell you guys had to say about Pai's stage in THAT game.

Also, I'll add that I think the damage in 5R is high. Is it too high at times? Depends on if I'm on the losing end or not. But yes it can get very high. Having said that, the only thing I do is... wait for it... DEAL WITH IT and keep playing. If Sega decides to scale the damage down, that's fine. If they want to keep it at this median, that's fine too. I'll deal with it and keep playing.