Complaining about VF5 (was Amusement Bee-Bee)

Kiwe you should understand why their aren't too many replays of that style of play..obviously it doesn't make for a good match to save. I've talked to Yosuke and Itazan about that and they both told me alot of players do this. Shou posted that up to prove a point and for no other reason. I myself played good Vanessia's that do this.

I'm not trying to criticize VF5 I love the game but only an idiot well tell you it's perfect. These forums are designed to talk about faults about the game not bash on each other because someone talk about these faults. If Sega made the perfect game they would lose money no need for VF5R or any updates in fact if I was in charge of making a VF I would purposely make the first versions with exploits its the the best decision you can do financially. Basically its the consumers Right to complain so the company knows which faults to correct

 

hey it's cool, ¬ you make a good point, but sometimes you can mistake "faults" for personal preference, i think that there's no way sega can please everybody. but balancing the game so it is well rounded? i would argue that they did to a large extent.

btw, does shou play live? what's is GT?? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Hey not bad match. And there was less ARMing than I expected. Nice that Shou adapted and pulled out a win. In my eyes Vanessa didnt do anything extraspecial. Notes: Sarahs /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif sabakis sidekicks, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has longer range than Vanes shadow slicer and is safe on block. Lastly: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif etc which Shou didnt try. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Styles are styles, and there are no unbeatable styles, that is all. As if there never were players earlier who were pure machi or didnt try all the dirty tricks in the book. Nothing new under the sun.
My personal opinion is that this has become an issue because majority of players arent good with movement, so countering ARM suddenly becomes hard for them. But hey, you can ARM FORWARD as well.

 

I played against a turtling Vanessa in the arcade the other day. I was using Lau. Yes, it is frustrating. Yes, it breaks the flow of the game. Yes, it seemed as if he only had to abuse certain easy moves/combos to win.

I still don't think it's cheap. He might have won the first two matches, but I adjusted and just dominated him until he switched characters.

Is it possible that I'll lose to turtling players if I'm not paying attention? Yeah, but I'm not at the level yet where I can just dominate everyone yet. The problem with turtling players is that they have to outguess your options, and wait till they have sufficient advantage to land powerful throws or attacks. Turtling is usually effective against people who rely too much upon flow charts, and predictive play. If you comprise your offense purely of quick hits and throws, turtling players will have a hard time. If your style is just throwing out a bunch of moves, and delay strings, yeah turtles will rip you apart.

Here is another thing that I'll say... If turtling and backwalking is so strong, then EVERYONE would be doing this. All the top players would exploit this to hell. High level VF would be played in a turtle fashion. There is nothing wrong it that at all, do what you need to do to win.

 

Take that!...back step... Take that!...back step... Take that!...back step... Take that!

 

Think about Lau/Vanessa match up...

At long range, me as Lau has to worry about Vanessa's 3K, 66K, K+G, tackle, etc.

My options are 33PP, 4P+K both of which can be auto inashi'ed. 9K is punishable, and much slower.

Imagine playing a Vanessa that stays in that distance the whole damn time. Oh well, I just had to deal with it. Not hard to win once I figured out what I had to do.

 

Hey I agree, that crap is frustrating. I just wanted to post the complicated strategy in case we get any new Van players. I start Van fights out with just backing up and waiting for the "take that" kick and then punishing. One specific name is "All Star '?' ", she is an 8th dan and only does that. Its just retarded.

 

Why doesn't it make for a good match to save? I would believe that if there was something exploitable it would value all that there were lots of replays of it floating around to bring it into light - the subsequent discussion of ways to beat it would be more then enough reason to wouldn't it? If I were pissed at a player for only playing cheap, and winning through faulty gameplay mechanics, I would want to show people just how much of a scrub he is also. I would also want help. I recommend you to save replays of the matches in future where you loose to this.

The problem is that most people who whine on things like this have slim to no actual interest in actually discussing how to beat the methods shown in turn which puts into question the motivationfactor behind the noise in the first place. It's a scrubmentality. What's worse is that it's almost becoming the norm of this site. The same sentiments are said over and over until they become a universal truth without ever truelly being questioned or put into light. Everytime something like this is brought forward there are people in the thread who ask about solutions or have input on what they would've done. How many threads on this do we need, 4-5 off topic rantings? More?

Start a thread about how to beat backwalking tactics with analysis of different ways of using it / speed differences etc - that would gain my respect. People pissing in every thread about Vannesa backwalk sidekick don't. It doesn't belong in this thread at all. Don't you see how fucked up it is that you upon viewing a superior Shun beating an Akira to a pulp by playing better (backwalking had nothing to do with it) turns into you pasting that 1yearold youtube Vanessa clip / going on into ranting about Vanessa backwalk sidekick and then defending it's place in this thread? That this is what this thread is now about?

Also; I sure as hell don't believe the entire "cause it's not a good match to save" theory as a means of explaining why it's that same one year old video over and over. Where was this tactic around huge national tourney's, SBO etc? The qualifiers? Or did the moral of the players stop them from exploiting their way into a win in this manner while abusing everything else they could? Maybe the footage was cut to keep it a national secret while everything else, every aspect of the game, is shown. It wasn't a good match afterall. No, show me highlevel Vanessas using this and getting away with against other highlevel players. Actually winning matches for starters. I think this is a low/mid level tactic which all could benefit from knowing how to beat / understand more. In my eyes this is no more different then a Jacky player in VF4 constantly doing elbows. The difference is that there was a discussion on how to beat things like that during that era - now it's just noise and whine. What's more suprisingly it's from the Veterans.

It's not perfect. No fightinggame is perfect. Did you expect it to be? VF3 wasn't perfect (specially before TB), VF4 ver C wasn't perfect. Everyone is hoping for a more balanced and better game for every revision and guess what - it usually comes through within new numbers of a gameseries. Compare this to Tekken 6 in it's current state or even the upcoming SF4. VF5 is -damn good-.
What is critiqued is not freedom of speech; it's the way of conduct some people whine and bitch on this site without doing anything constructive in turn. If I were new to this site I would honestly believe that the biggest problem in the game was Vanessas backwalkspeed and if that was fixed the game would be perfect.

 

Yet, she is 8th dan and winning enough to rank up when required. I have to agree with Srider 100% here. I see no reason why that tactic is the core of the "This is why VF5 needs to be fixed" as Shou put it in the description of the YouTube video.

So she's backing up and playing machi. People have been playing machi for years, well before ARM was put in the game. Would it have been a less frustrating match if the Vanessa player used dashes and crouch dashes to stay away? No, it would have been the same boring as hell, tough to fight, match. But it's perfectly viable and part of the flavour of human competition.

I have the most trouble winning with Pai if I'm having a hard time throwing my opponent and/or floating my opponent (don't we all). Machi players tend to take the risk of taking a CH for a float out of the match, and for a lot of us who are often using a variety of tactics to set up a float or a throw, this really makes it a lot more difficult to take off chunks of damage. But it's part of the game and you have to deal with it. I would certainly disagree that it needs to be nerfed in the game simply because a more aggressive style of play leads to more exciting matches. Styles are different, and imo, you need that variety.

 

im picking up on several points in this thread..

one is "repeat", and the other is "backdash / space / out of range"

range and distance in VF doesnt automatically put you in control, infact gives an equal opportunity for the opponent to use the same space as you. fun? nope, it's out of the question here, were talking about the percentage of fairness in the situation. and infact it's pretty equalized. sometimes i dont even find lei fei fun to face.

repeat is something that players learn from. you start from beginner VF where you throw out attacks to stop consistency. then mediocre VF where you fail to expect the same choice twice and call the game / player scrubby. then higher VF where you dont even need to care about the next attack because you have an all-round defense.

i think the fun of VF is where you adapt in so many ways that turtlers would even be afraid to turtle!

 

My only point is that its frustrating. Being nerfed is NOT what I intended to support. The biggest part of the frustration comes from playing a top tier player, in this case Van, and seeing her true capabilities then playing someone else who just backs up the entire match and literally does nothing but ONE move in the hopes of winning. Its annoying and boring. I don't understand how this is even argued. I am not suggesting any nerf or speed change.

 

Physician, heal thyself:

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=198512#Post198512

 

Kiwe, great points all around.

Yup.

Great points Llanfair! I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Your frustration is noted, and added to the list of players (myself included) who have been tormented by the machi player.

Here's an interesting little bit of VFDC trivia: The original online forum that started this thing called VFDC, was actually Ice-9's forum called the Anti-Chicken-Players-Club, or ACPC. After a couple iterations, voila!, you have the birth of the forums here at VFDC.

So it's been top-of-mind for a long while. Machi is boring, no question. My comments to the suggestion of nerfing and/or game changes in ARM speed was really in response to the tag line in the YouTube clip: "This is why VF5 needs to be fixed". I don't think it's broken, personally.

 

What is the best way to deal with the "take this" spin kick move that knocks you askew on block (in general, not charactar specific)? It seems online that no matter what i do, i cannot recover in time to block follow up hits. must i simply se it coming and attack her in the air?

 

Prepare for awesomeness! If you hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif, the character will assume a crouching position. I know what you're thinking "No way, Jeneric, that's just too cool to be true!" but it IS TRUE. And if you wire me money on Paypal you can buy my special hand lotion that makes crouching easier then ever.

Call now.

 

Was this really necessary?

 

Thats my opinion dude and I am entitled to it. Just like konjous opinion...
"Goes to show you just how broken Shun is compared to most characters. He can literally win with zero effort."

btw, why do you think there are so few american players for vf? Alot of it has to do with the fact that game takes alot of time and work to get good. Like anything worthwhile, it takes time and patience and there are countless people who tried it and gave up once they realized they werent gonna be beating top players after 2 weeks of playing every day. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Whine and Bitch??!? yea, ok simply talking about a tactic is not whining and bitching. Why are you even comparing VF5 with other fighting games?..I personally don't see threads regarding this subject matter at all show me the 5,6 different threads where this is mentioned? I don't even consider myself a veteran in this game so don't assume I am such. Another thing, playing like the Vanessa in the video isn't a high level tactic to begin with so in turn you wont see recognized high level players using it, its a scrub tactic designed to scrummage more wins faster without learning the game. I would post a thread on how to beat this but how can I when I don't even know how to effectively enough (thus, the so called bitching you been bitching about) how about instead of bitching about people talking about it how about you post a thread of how to destroy the tactic? You know, seeing that you're the one that knows how to.

 

is turtling only considered a scrubby tactic in VF?
not tryin to start no bullshit im just askin cuz when i see games like...
i dunno lets say 3rd strike for the moment
if you watch most chun li players, they turtle n go for that 1 poke that will land em that fuckin SA.
actually i saw JWong do it in his matches this weekend.
just askin