COMMUNITY PROJECT: Aoi Guide

That doesn't make any sense... 43P+K will most definitely get counter hit by standing punch following a low sweep guard cancel (did you mean 43P? which does duck highs). Second, the whole point of cancelling the kick is usually to give you an advantage against player's that block and punish... so you should expect your opponent to be in crouch guard as soon as you cancel, and go for the low throw. It is possible to do high throws as well, but usually you might as well have thrown as soon as the punches end, and not bothered even starting the low sweep. Guard cancelling out of PPP2k too often is generally just begging to get hit by a low punch. Though, cancelling the stand-alone is less risky, and can lead to some really powerful mixups.

 

YY stance parry guaranteed follow-up:

1/against punches and elbows:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

notes: sometimes /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can whiff because of the range.
Aoi can reverse /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif with her BT reversal, or evade the first hit with her spin evade from BT. She can reverse /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif too.

2/against side kick
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

notes: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif does more damage

3/against high kick or mid kick
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

notes: I recommand /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif because the combo follow ups does more damage than after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif tends to whiff if you are too slow or because of the range...

4/against knees:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

 

Yeah it works for mee sometimes too...
sweep cancel followed by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
Because the opponent tried to counter attack but reacted too late.
He throwed a mid after crouching like he had blocked the sweep.
Of course, don't abuse too much this flow charts.. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I would say the cancel give you a virtual advantage even if you are at negative frames, if the opponent stays on block for fear he might be hit by the next moves of the string attack and react according to what he sees ( but too late)

 

I have to try this out.

 

Good stuff

 

On the subject of a community project, why aren't there any topics on Aoi's wall game? From people I've played online she has one of the best wall games ever if she can get a stagger.

What moves cause this stagger? I know /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif into a wall causes a stagger, what else is there?

Also after a wall combo I've seen Aoi players tack on a kick that seems to have the same properties as Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or Pai's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Is it just a standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?

 

I think people don't talk about it cause it's not really true. It goes along with all her max damage combos being roughly in the 55-65 damage range... her wall combos tend to be about the same, unlike the easy 100+ damage that a wall combo results in for characters like wolf or lei-fei. She also has some trouble with positioning... she's great at using various throws and such to move around her opponents in a circle, but it's very hard to push your opponent back into a wall. Unless you get lucky with something like 33P+K or 43P+K into PP6PP, then forcing someone to back up instead of just knocking them down in place is quite difficult.

Of course, if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear about... but so far no wall combos I've found have really seemed worth the trouble.

The kick is probably either K or 3K. Not sure which one you mean... also note if you press KK instead of just a single standing K or KP, it alters the move animation fairly significantly, so it looks like a different kick, but it's not.

 

The only reliable wall stagger I use is 66P. The nice thing about it is that it can be done a pretty decent distance from the wall. You can usually combo with 66K PPPK 8P if the opponent doesn't escape the stagger. That's roughly 50% IIRC. As for more advanced stuff, I haven't really looked into that yet.

I'm not sure if this would fit your criteria for a wall combo but at the right distance you can PPPK and the third P will cause a wall hit allowing the K to connect and causing a wall splat. Then you PPPK again. It's pretty good damage. Combine with 6P+G. It's actually not as hard to judge the distance as it might at first seem.

 

It works for me only if the punch hits a side turned opponent.
Like after a side kick parry or with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif
The second hits of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif causes a wall staggers too.
And /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is pretty interesting after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw, I can constantly avoid rising attack (low or mid, and if the foe delay or roll first, dash and wait before throwing the move)with it.

There is a video to illustrate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUN6tAvBVnU

 

I may disagree
Have you watched Kingo Video ? 66P is really strong near the wall, great distance, fast, safe, G-cancelable and SEMI-CIRCULAR. Think of it as Lei 66P and replace may be 10 pts less combo damage afterwards with the semi_circular and g_cancel properties.
P+G throw positionning doesn't seem that hard too, and basically, 66P threat gives you a lot of opportunities to land it.

 

Did some testing... Kingo is right.

6P+G2_8 > PPPK > PPPK is an 83 damage combo if you spin them towards a wall, as in his video. Actually pretty useful, though a bit tricky to setup.

66P into wall hit > PPPK > PPPK is 108 damage, but is *not* a combo. After the wall hit only PPP is guaranteed, opponent can just block the followup K. And I haven't found anything else that is a combo and is particular strong after the wall hit yet. It's nothing like lei-fei's 66P in terms of ridiculous guaranteed damage that you can get.

Btw, kingo... do you need to dodge in a particular direction to get 3_9P+KP to hit after neutral P+G, or are rising kicks linear from face up, feet towards?

 

I guess if the opponent gets in the habit of escaping the wall stagger you can run up and throw.

Also I don't think the wall stagger is necessary for the PPPK PPPK combo. A regular wall hit seems to stun them long enough for the K to be guaranteed. Though it is somewhat easier to set up with 6P+G2_8.

 

Well... yeah, if they escape the wall stagger, I'm not sure anything's guaranteed, haven't tested, but that's not the point.

If you just do PPPK, the K is not guaranteed, i.e. it's not a combo. If you do a wall stagger, and then PPPK, it's still not a combo, they can block the K. With a normal wall hit, nothing changes. Even using 6P+G2_8 the "combo" only works if the third punch causes a wall hit. If the first or second punch causes the wall hit, or no wall hit occurs, then the K can still be blocked as normal.

Interestingly... 6P+G and 6P+G4 can both cause wall hits, but the 2 and 8 versions end with the opponent standing where Aoi used to be... she pulls them instead of pushing in the other two versions, so the animation doesn't allow her to hit them against a wall. Even with that said... it seems to me that the guys in that video got freakin' lucky. You'll note in every single version, the wall hit is caused by the third P just like I said, and the distance is incredibly hard to judge because of the angle... I find it hard to believe that anyone could effectively apply that combo on purpose.

I think you *can* get a gauranteed ~80 damage, though.

66P (wall stagger) > 43P+K > 2KP > 6KK

If they don't break the stagger, 43P+K will crumple, and then the rest is guaranteed. After 2KP, you have to wait a second for opponent to hit the wall again, if you do 6KK before they hit the wall, it can miss depending on distance. If done right, it does 83 damage, and if you accidentally end with KK instead of 6KK, it does 81. Tested on Wolf and Aoi... so doesn't appear to be weight dependant.

EDIT: Actually, against Aoi it only works in open stance, but against wolf stance doesn't seem to matter.

 

Trust me. You can judge the PPPK combo. I've done it on purpose numerous times. And yeah I've already mentioned the the third P has to cause the wall hit for the rest to follow. Though I haven't been doing it lately since I'm concentrating on other aspects of my game. Also, nice find with the 43P+K combo. Something to keep in mind since I'm having more people escape the wall stagger.

 

I meant judging the distance after performing 6P+G2_8... it's really, really hard because of the angle, I had trouble even setting up the computer into the proper position to allow for it. Yeah, if they just have their backs to a wall, and you hit them with PPP, it isn't too difficult. But in that case, you appear to get the same damage from 66P anyway and I think it works from the same distance. Just choose based on which move you think your opponent is less likely to block.

 

I Don't know which combo you're talking about, but for me most LeiFei wall combos do around 85 damage, only one does 99 and it's pretty distance specific.
Now with Aoi

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (wall) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif =93

It doesn't need any specific distance, deals great damage and comes from a normal hit half circular that has as much if not more pushback on hit than Lei's 66P, so may be it's just me but using the "nothing like Lei Fei" or "Aoi wall game is weak" BS may be a bit too much.

 

Yeah, I guess I've disproven some of my own claims at this point. Her wall combos are stronger than I realized (and actually, lei-feis are slightly weaker than I realized as well).

Lei does still have an advantage in that his 66P is his 14-frame mid, whereas Aoi's 66P is 17 frames... so Lei's is more effective as a result of being a standard nitaku option. Aoi's 66P does some weird things depending on open/closed stance too... while testing my combo a few posts earlier against wolf, even backing the computer straight up to the wall sometimes he'd rebound at an angle after the wall hit, and the last few hits of the combo would miss... I never did figure out what was going on to cause that, something about the half-circular hitbox at particular ranges, I'd guess.

Also, if anyone uses it a lot... what do you do if Aoi's 66P hits when you're not near a wall? It pushes the opponent so far back that I haven't found anything to use as a followup with any effectiveness at all... usually I just whiff an attack on accident and then get killed shortly thereafter.

 

Some options I use after a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

- a second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
- dash /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or throw

It really depends on your opponent's reaction.

I prefer to use the cancel version or when it's blocked... it's more interesting to set up others stuffs.

For /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ... I don't know, I guess we should test it more.
It seems to work after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw, a ground throw, and low throw. I don't say it works everytime, sometimes I just eat a CH rising kick lol.

 

Yeah, been using it more myself, and it seems pretty effective especially after neutral P+G I hardly ever eat the rising kick. However, it'll just whiff against a low rising kick, which seems to leave me pretty open to punishment. I guess more experimentation is in order, lol.

EDIT: Did some more checking... back to the original question that started all this, it appears that 3K and 4K+G both cause wall stagger as well. 3K is kind of boring... seems completely inferior to 66P. 4K+G is actually pretty interesting... sidekick sabaki, and you recover back turned, haven't figured out if that allows for any particular useful combos yet.

 

Usually I'll use a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif whether I stagger them or not. Remember that Aoi has high and mid reversals with her back turned so you can use that depending on what you think your opponent will try to do. You want to watch out for throws, though and Aoi can't reverse EVERYTHING with her back turned...attacks with the shoulder/back, double palms, and certain kicks and any low strikes can't be reversed from that position. If you stagger them with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif then the cookie-cutter way to go about following up is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif