Choosing a character....

Re: Confusion overkill.

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Look at every other character's PK. Most put them at +2, which isn't alot. Backdashing will not only avoid throw attempts(except maybe Wolf or Jeffry's),

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Hi Dre, just a small observation: don't +2 situations require fuzzy guard? I don't understand how you can escape throw options by backdashing. (unless changed in FT?.... doesn't seem practical)

 

Re: Confusion overkill.

You can also backdash, but it has to be quick. It works in Evo.

 

Re: Confusion overkill.

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goh's BT d+p causes a guaranteed low throw MC (i.e with bb+p nitaku).

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On HC yes. Against a 2p it won't be a HC.

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even with a +5 or more force crouch (guarantee low throw or not) it is more than enough to hurt your opp with.

trust me......... please.........

 

Re: Confusion overkill.

PK is -1 on hit, not -2. Just to clarify.

PS i reed gud

 

Re: Confusion overkill.

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PK is -1 on hit, not -2. Just to clarify.


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That makes alot of difference in my book. Now the only thing the opponent can do to win over Goh's 2p (normally) would be a 2p of his own which Goh could react to in loads of different ways without having to think about an elbow for instance. At -1 I don't have really as much of a problem with it as at -2.

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PS i reed gud

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What? That sentence looks really funny for someone from Sweden (something with god).

Backdashing from throws work at -2 but it's kinda flaky (spacing from what move you just did/ stance etc) imo compared to fuzzy still. Backdashing has been nerfed (slower now) a bit in FT apparently so prob won't be as appliable either as it was in Evo so better to take the highroad and learn proper fuzzy.

Peace Out and only time will tell how good Goh's PK>BT turns out to be actually ingame as it seems like it's the different onlooks on a gamesituation that differs peoples opinions right now and not much to do about that.

/KiwE

 

Re: Confusion overkill.

Yeah, too late for me to edit.

Basically what I'm saying is for a character like Goh, resulting in -1 isn't a big problem because of the tools he has. Also, the Goh player is the one who decides if he will put himself at -1 or +3, not the other player. IMO that's the key point in all of this, and even though + is weaker, it's still good enough to discourage low punch retaliation. There are also many other ways to discourage it as you probably already know.

I must be the only one who Loves the . I think it's a good tradeoff.

 

Re: Confusion overkill.

You are not the only one Dre. I think it's completely logical for Goh's to give -1. How else will you get the perfect situation/setup to use his sabaki? -1 is the perfect setup to exercise Goh's main strength, and he even has a choice to go into -1 or +3. If Goh didn't have this new , there will almost be no chance to go to BT with a good setup to work with. Like Dre said, the player who plays have a choice, and that's really good.

Like I've said before, Goh is just a character that needs to be played differently. There's no point to try to use him like Akira or other characters with +2 . It's obvious to see that most people can only play VF with the very basics, this is why Goh doesn't offer a big draw for most players used to playing that style. Goh is someone that should be played differently, but to effectively use his sabaki's, it requires almost super human yomi skills. When it works though, it's really really high damage.

 

I wrote previously how I thought Goh's A2 would be a key move...it's a good move, but after playing with it more I think is a better alternative primarily because the float from A2 is so flaky. Sometimes it's impossible to combo anything except . If they both execute at 16 frames, I am inclined to go for the more stable >60 points damage from the hit throw. I DO wish AM2 would give Goh a true 15 frame attack that has better range or potential than , though his elbow is somewhat adequate.

Also one interesting trade off to consider is DE versus knee. They both are +1 on normal hit and require counter hit for significant damage. Knee is 17 frames, short range, and -10 recovery. DE is 16 frames, middle range, and -6 recovery. Knee can get you ~70 points whereas DE gets you ~60 points, although against lesser players you can go for a ground attack. Essentially, you're trading distance and uncounterability for merely 10 points of damage. DE all the way for me.

 

Yes but the problem with DE (66p) is still that it's not 16 frames but 17 efficiently due to the dashinput. So it's not faster then knee. Then again some people prefer -10 as you can TEG while you're bound to do (the more risky) ETEG / other defensive tools (or RN) when you're -6. Knee probably has better Oki aswell imo. If it just had better range and wasn't nerfed in dmg ;P

Now that Goh has a 12 frameish counter I wouldn't mind him getting a KN style frameish one for VF5 (not too thrilled with shldrm'ing ppl there). I so wish they pulled down 4p+k to 18frames.

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How else will you get the perfect situation/setup to use his sabaki?

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Peace Out.

/KiwE

 

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Then again some people prefer -10 as you can TEG while you're bound to do (the more risky) ETEG / other defensive tools (or RN) when you're -6. Knee probably has better Oki aswell imo. If it just had better range and wasn't nerfed in dmg ;P

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ice has some points.

in EVO, i would go for knee any day, but DE is much better with cock-ups becuase at -6 goh's side trip and elbow sabakis are still effective enough i think.

dont forget it's still RN, if you go for an elbow sabaki and the opp tries a throw, they get a punch in the face for a +2 adv . for the odd occasion you could even spam out a launcher, -6 encourages the opp to throw more than a lower dis

 

is less damage..... is 15 frames exe...........

 

Hmm I'm not sure I buy the "-10 is better than -6" argument....

 

-10 would be better if the damage was larger and the range was good. Then the reward would make up for the fact that you don't get to RN, and you can DTEG too. But the fact is, in FT the knee isn't even that much more damaging than DE, and inferior in every other way.

I know they didn't want Goh to get 4p+k after knee in FT, since 4p+k gets a lot more damage now, but I think it would be completely fair to make knee +20~21 for a free Basara. ~95 damage, that would be fair for hitting an MC knee. And basass to boot.

 

That's a huge reward for a counter hit knee..... Goh'd be like Jeffry...

 

Except Goh's knee only works on counter hit and has shit range? Yeah, he would be exactly like Jeff.

And by "be exactly like Jeff" I mean "not be like Jeff at all".

 

Not that Goh would have the same knee as jeffry, but on a counter hit knee Goh'd be like jeffry in damage.

 

I like the idea. Not to mention, you'de actually have to know what you're doing and be skilled enough to pull of the Basara and not scrub it. Btw, can you still TR-trap someone hit after knee?

Ice-9; Nah, I don't mean -10 is better then -6 normally., if that was the case people wouldn't whore safe moves. It depends on a lot of things (how strong the throwgame is for the other char for instance), it sometimes gives a warm fuzzy feelin' though knowing you've cut of two throws and no attack can hurt you if you react decently in a TEG situation as compared to somewhat a more complex situation in -6 where you need to mixup evades, gaurding, eteg'ing and RN.

/KiwE