Choosing a character....

Thanks for the advice.....

But honestly, I believe my problem with playing Goh more stems from the knowledge that he is the weakest character (Just look at the Kakutou Shinseiki 3 list), and that people with equal skill will walk all over me with other characters.....

 

from one scrub to another - imho, Goh, at non-high levels actually does well. he's got a pretty straight fwd game plan... and it's easy for him to create damaging scenarios. i do recognize how at high levels, he can indeed suck. but down here in scrub land, he's a poor man's akira with big throws and easy execution, imho.

 

Wolf, Goh...someone's always crying weak.

What's Goh missing anyway? TFT? DE?

I say bullshit, Goh has the tools to compete. Blame the player, not the character.

 

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What's Goh missing anyway?

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Perhaps a grapple situation that is harder to escape than at present. Something approximately as damaging as + (sabaki) + + would be great if it ever actually landed without being escaped.

.. but I probably just like Goh's character design and therefore want to see him improve, rather than recognise any genuine gameplay/balance flaw that may or may not exist.

Still, it would be nice. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

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What's Goh missing anyway?

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Good -12/-13 punsihment, a good low, a good launcher/big damage move, K~G cancel, an elbow he can actually do some nitaku from (fixed in FT ver B thank god).

They gave him () in FT but it's a joke. -1 on hit lol. OMG +3 if you go BT, what a joke.

+ sucks, doesn't even flop on normal hit! If it only flops on mC and up, it should be special high or something. And the damage is shit anyway, unless they don't just-frame tech and he guesses right on a ground throw.

His + already sucked in Evo, now he doesn't even get great damage from it. Do you realize you can backdash his + at point blank range? Kage can do +, , + against his knee. And Goh has to get an MC with it to get 86 (70 in FT!!?) damage? It's unlikely to even hit knee on NORMAL hit let alone MC...

In Evo his + is only +4 on MC, which means the opponent can + out of + or + (it's 16 frames but the dash motion makes it 17, and you would have to buffer so early that you couldn't hit-check + so forget about it). What's he gonna use for nitaku? ++ (lol)? They made it +6 on MC in ver B, but they took away it's property of leaving Goh super-close after stagger. We wouldn't want Goh to be TOO good, now would we?

Only things he got were + (which IS pretty good), more damage for ++ (rightfully so, since that move royally sucks as a launcher), and SPOD (which is all well and good, but how much stronger does that even make Goh? Look at it this way, if you took SPOD away from Akira, how much weaker would he be? Not much). At least with SPOD Goh has a good delay attack (but that is far from his biggest problem, he actually has a great throw game to use if he wants to take the risk against a possible evade).

Goh sucks, kids. They will probably make him nice and strong in VF5 though. Look what happened to Aoi from VF3 heh.

 

I agree with everything you said, and I also think + should always knock down. It's slow enough already.

And why the fuck did they nerf + ?

 

Has anybody ever seen basara fully connect all parts in a match? I haven't yet (seem some fuckups of it but not a full connect).

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What's he gonna use for nitaku?

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M-Shldrm after will beat the after a MC elbow and can be used for nitaku at +4 Dandy. It's not great but it's not really crummy either (it's Goh?). Other then that yeah, Goh got the short end of "fixes" for FT. I think the entire pk thing got so missdesigned someone should get fired *^___^*

/KiwE (Hoping for a redesign of a Goh's strikinggame for VF5).

 

OK enough Goh bashing... It is pretty clear that he is not the strongest character in the game! however I agree completely with agios. at his/my/isoulle's level he is perfectly useable and has a decent nitaku game which is what isoulle was looking for in a character. I still stand by the fact that against Lei, playing the nitaku game is not very effective because eventually you will be put on the defensive and then what do you do??? (obviously what I said earlier)

 

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Maybe Jin or Ken, oh no, nevermind, that's not quite right.

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You maybe laugh right there when I was reading this

 

Yeah, I kinda have to agree with what most people are saying about Goh. He's only good for low-interemediate levels of playing. Iv'e found that out the hard way.

 

Ice, try to watch closely in the ROTY how arashi handles Hanaberei... oh wait he doesnt cause he gets pwned beyond belief. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

That sucks. He is the character I started playing. He reminded me a lot of makoto from SFIII:3s and that is my main in that game.

I really think his throw game is cool and his throws apprently do a lot of damage.

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I wont quit!

 

Hey at first I liked playing with him, but then when I reached an advanced level of play with him, he just couldn't stand up to it with his arsenal. The only advantage he has are his throws.

 

Can you explain to me exactly what it is that makes his arsenal so weak?

 

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Can you explain to me exactly what it is that makes his arsenal so weak?

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read my post duder

 

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Ice, try to watch closely in the ROTY how arashi handles Hanaberei... oh wait he doesnt cause he gets pwned beyond belief. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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i wouldnt say that bad since hanabi got 3rd overall, he took out segaru and hakushon also

 

Arashi even switched back to Jacky for FT.

Akira/Wolf have shoulder rams/knees, Jeffry has his knee, Sarah has dragon cannon, etc. The list goes on and on. Goh really doesn't have any powerful fast launchers like those to make people fear him, and sidestepping towards his back avoids most of his attacks. If knocked down on normal hit, he would at least have something decent to use. I'd like to hear the programmers' reasoning for making this move so weak, even in FT.

IMO, the throw selection is the only thing that keeps Goh from being a total weakling.

 

Good post and fair points, but when you evaluate a character to your play style, of course you'll find deficiencies. Goh is not like Kage or Wolf and should not be measured according to other characters' strengths (e.g. slap, short shoulder, etc.).

Goh is strong because of
- Great MM strings that used right can lead to throw opportunities
- Many attack-avoiding attacks, which allow Goh to RN
- Sabakis for everything so you can attack continuously
- One of the best throw games
- A2 which is basically a Kage upper
- Solid long-range game with , , , etc.
- Multiple tools for big damage: knee (-10 recovery), ++ (slow but perfectly safe), + (low damage, but fast and safe with hit check), and basara (high damage high reward)

Personally, I think Goh is one of the easiest players to play at the beginner/intermediate level if you're a player with good basics because of his short move list and easy nitaku game (throw or +/knee). However, at advanced levels Goh is probably one of the hardest because you need a lot of experience and knowledge to take advantage of his unique attacks.

Really his biggest deficit is a high damage counter at -14, but with good throws and a basic I think Goh is fine though certainly not advantaged. Yes, is -1 on hit but for a character like Goh that isn't a big deal. gives him a nitaku opportunity that needs a 13-frame attack to break, most likely an LP.

To me, FT Version B Goh is just fine.

 

No wonder you whine like a little school girl about Kagay.

 

Does that turn you on?