Character Tiers?

"In VF4, tiering is only true on a personal level, i.e. everyone has their own tiering. "

Hear hear.. I, for example, can't use the "simple" characters like Jacky or Lau for beans, and yet have a pretty decent time with Jeffry or Kage, who are theoretically more difficult to use.

I find the easiest character to start with is probably Sarah, actually... she's pretty quick, reasonably strong, and has some killer moves and combos (anything starting with the is evil!).

There's an additional tier structure, I feel, based on how you're playing. Kumite vs. the CPU requires different gameplay than vs. humans. In my experience, for example, the CPU at higher levels is ridiculously good at choosing which hit level to block... if you're playing as Lion, who has tons of moves that look similar but hit at different levels, the confusion advantage you would have against a human is pretty well gone.

if you want to learn to play VF4 well, I'd suggest picking up Kage. He can do a little bit of everything, but has relatively few killer supermoves (IMO). As a result, you're forced to LEARN the game, using elbows and low punches to interrupt attacks or set up throws, mixing up the throws you actually use (i.e. people WILL escape the ten foot toss more, on average, than his +), using fun float and bounce combos, etc.

Just my two cents, anyway

 

I'm glad to see that someone else is having issues with the "simple" characters. I get so prdictable with them that I'm preaty sure my friends could beat me blinded...

Also you're right about the comp. never losing the guessing games. I'm a Shun player, and frankly I lose out alot because the comp. doesn't get confused. On the flip side my friends do /versus/images/icons/wink.gif.

About the whole tier thing... It seems preaty trivial too me... Just go through the training with everyone and pick from there. The chracter you pick should reflect your personnality in some way, not statistics.

Winning glorifies, losing teaches,
Cuz

 

"I'd say that yes, there are tiers in VF4, but the difference between even the first and character is so small that it doesn't matter. Also, I think that any notion of tiering is heavily swayed by playstyle. For example, these boards are saying that Lau and Jacky are top-tier. These board members also don't reverse 95% of the time. To someone who does, Pai is better than Lau, and Akira and Aoi are a lot higher on that person's tiering list, which brings me to my main point. In VF4, tiering is only true on a personal level, i.e. everyone has their own tiering."


Great post! I agree with you 100%.

 

A) Reversing over 70% of attacks requires rediculous mind games.
b) The damage you get from a reversal is not worth the risk in attempting it 95% of the time, if you know what your opp. is going to do, its better to go for a MC --> combo.
The top teirs are Akira, Jacky, Lau, Jeffry (?). With Aoi and Shun at the bottom of the list b/c it is much harder to inflict damage.

 

hoo-flippin-ray!

 

A) Reversing over 70% of attacks requires rediculous mind games.
b) The damage you get from a reversal is not worth the risk in attempting it 95% of the time

Yeah, but that's assuming you're not good enough at reversals to "make them worth the risk." Again, playstyle defines tiering.

 

The point is that NOBODY is good enough to make, say, Aoi top tier because she has better reversals. When Aoi wins tournaments (which is fairly rare), it's because she abuses G-cancels and basic elbow/throw/sweep games, not reversals. She's low tier because she's harder to win with, not because she's impossible to win with.

 

NOBODY is good enough to make, say, Aoi top tier because she has better reversals

Nobody, or nobody you've seen play? This reversal discussion, just like tiering, is all theory. And in theory, reversing 95% of the time can be done.

 

but you can only do this if you are playing a retard who uses strings all the time rather than basics.

 

Although countering 95% of the time is a bit far fetch, I still think that having so many countering opportunities is incredibly powerful in the right hands. It's also obvious that countering is a gamble in many ways; however, at a 1 frame execution, it might just be your only option.

I'm mainly a Shun player, but Aoi is my second in command solely due to the fact that she can counter so much. Now am I as serious and as dedicated to the VF as you guys? Hell I can’t even play the arcade version, so I’m stuck being a console player! So I doubt that I rank up to your level of expertise. But based on the tier system that some of you have provided, I should in theory, lose more often then not because I use the 2 characters that are the "weakest". To best my knowledge I don’t.

Now I don’t want to down grade your beliefs, I know for a fact that they are very deeply rooted and not just made up illusions. I respect them for what they are; your own opinions based on what you know. As for myself I don’t feel the need of a tier system to pick a character nor would I recommend it.

Winning glorifies, losing teaches,
Cuz

 

Gndalf007: I mean nobody in the world who goes to tournaments (or else it would definitely have been all over the Net). In theory, you can reverse, escape, or block-and-punish all moves and win without ever attacking, just like in theory you can never lose with Strider/Doom in MvC2. Neither strategy is useful in the real world, to such an extent that America's one tournament-worthy Strider player gets mad props just for trying.

Cuz: Exactly, you don't have human competition, so you never get to face characters at anywhere near their full potential. Reversals are unfortunately a huge risk for a small reward in VF4.

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And in theory, reversing 95% of the time can be done.

[/ QUOTE ] In theory, it can be done, but it's not a very good strategy. Example: Akira does his basic + throw, and the opponent rises with a mid kick. According to your logic, Akira should reverse it. I on the other hand, would evade towards the opponent's head, and immediately buffer a Yoho () which leads to major combos. Thats at least an 80 point combo compared to 30 points for a reversal. As far as Aoi's goes, her crescent "reversals" are nice because they set the opponent up for followup moves, but IMO it's better to evade and counter against non-crescent moves whenever possible. Reversals are too much of a risk for very little reward. If you're reversing 95% of the time, you're gonna get thrown or hit by delayed attacks if you're playing against anyone who isn't the cpu. Take a look at the media section. There are a few Aoi clips there, and the majority of them rarely use reversals except in okizime situations against mid or low rising crescents.

 

...I agree.... ....Gndalf007, you're dreaming if you think that you can anticipate ANY opponent's moves 95% of the time... think about it... if I just punch and kick you may get 50%........okizeme or ppl who use non-evadable attacks often (?...in ONE match) are really the only times......since there are often several counter-measures for every situation, having reversals only gives you more options and adds to your guessing game....they should not be individually judged as ways to tier characters...
....in reply to the general thread topic, of course there are tiers....it is impossible for any game to be perfect....since different options are good for different situations....you'd be better off trying to tier characters depending on who they are fighting.....then you have to add the human element.....too hard....

 

You guys are missing the point...

Playstyle defines tiering.

 

of all 1st dan/kyu players, akira and kage were the most challenging. they just keep hammering away! pai on the other hand was easy.

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You guys are missing the point...

Playstyle defines tiering.

[/ QUOTE ] That's true for the most part, but if you're reversing 95% of the time and still winning, then you're playing against rookies (or the cpu). That nonsense is useless against good competition. Nobody can recognize every move and reverse on reaction.

 

...er...I guess but tiering characters as a list of all VF4 players worldwide is a little vague....

 

High Tier:

-Akira, tough to master and play with, but extremely rewarding for good VF players.

-Kage, nice striking attack game, JM stance, and good throw potential.

-Goh, inashi's, sabaki's, reversal's, huge throws, staggers, even though he is new, he is easily one of hardest characters to beat in the hands of an expert.

-Wolf, throws, fast striking attacks, nice low game, charging, low punch cut, Wolf is hard to master for offensive players, but can dominate high level players, Segaru is one to look at for exceptional Wolf play.


Mid Tier:

-Jacky, hate to say it, but even the best Jacky players, Mask and HighJin, abuse the shit out of f+p, even in Evo when it got nerfed they abuse it to the max, Jacky players have a hard time mixing up his linear attacks and setting up flow charts, and his throw game is weak compared to other players.

Will edit later, need to leave house /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

How did Jacky's f+p get nixed? It is just a punch animation now, but same properties. Only for reversal purposes does it matter.