BOYCOTT: don't support invite-only bullshit in NYC!

Actually that wasn't my intention. I didn't direct any of my previous post at any members of the FL crew. It's really to address the issue of "Politics hurt VF scene". What ever you guys have with NYC i'm sure there's a reason for each of you and that should be up to you guys to figure things out. I'm only addressing this issue from the view of outsiders. I just honestly think people have no reason to get mad over an invitational event. However they feel towards the NYC/FL issue is none of my business. I just don't want people to feel negative towards two prominent groups of VF players simply for reasons they have no reason to be involved with.

For the record, I said in my previous post that for all that matters, people know who's who in the NA VF scene. What I've said only applies to people who are just coming to this board and just getting mad over nothing. "Why wasn't I invited? I can beat people at my arcade!" types of people.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]

Dre does a lot for this communtiy bringing new vids to the ppl everyday, where's his love?


[/ QUOTE ]

I seem to recall ripping and hosting more than a few vids in the past. Where's my love? I guess that's the VF love and hate nature. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Take some ownership and elaborate. People took time to write out thoughts and all while you let Creed with the Hydra Sig go at it.
What was said about nyc and fl....I mean damn how vague can you be?


[/ QUOTE ]

Why RU being such a chief? Maybe Blondie realizes that doing so isn't going to yield any fruitful results. It's their dough, it's their decision --- done. There's nothing more to talk about. Blondie admitted it, and now you're trying to bait him. Real mature.

I usually have a lot to say on these topics, but I'm only making special appearances to point out who looks like a real tool at specific times. Anything else just makes people write more posts... in the form of short novels.

While I'm not going to take sides per se, and I think all westerners are equally asshole-ish, myself included, I think both sides have a logical bitch, although 1) Creed's side is way more pro-everyone, and 2) not inviting people that you don't like b/c of a game is just pretty phucking lame. Not saying that's why there not invited, but it's clear that certain cities kinda hate each other... over a video game... and many in each party are out of college.... Hmm....

Sheesh. Blondie and I have butted heads on a few occasions. Do I slam him, no? If he was coming to Japan, I'd most likely wanna hook up with him. Never turned anyone down from VFDC -- from the scrubbiest, to the most annoying to be around like Ice-9. (ducks -- j/k ice)

So... can we have a group hug?

 

I'll try to keep this shorter and nicer than usual, since I think you're ok most of the time /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Random new players have no reason to attend an event like this.

At some point in their lives, blondie, imf, and the goldens were just "Random new players".

There's also the small bit about having fun. No reason to deny new players the opportunity to have fun and play VF legends just because they haven't hit 500 on the VFDC post-meter.

so it presents no draw rather to earn a title to brag about

No draw? What're the japanese players, icing on the cake? The presence of tetsujin is the draw. They are the cake, the icing, and the bag of chips.

At an event like NYC, there will ONLY be VF players. So arguing about expanding the VF community/culture is rather pointless here..

When you have virtually no comp...you rely on these gatherings to keep your own personal interest in VF alive. Sometimes the VF community expands just because people have enough of an interest not to quit. Invite only tournaments give people a reason to quit... like if they think the community is elitist or newbie-unfriendly or just plain full of jerks.

If people just didn't make posts about business they have nothing to do with, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

That's a surprising potshot from you srider, and I don't appreciate it... this is an issue for me because I consider the florida crew my friends, and I tend to stick up for my friends. I wouldn't be much of a hydra member if I didn't give a shit and sat on the fence.

The reason I think it's an issue for other people is this: If all new york had to offer were their usual jackass crew, I could easily say "fuck em" and not care if they opened their doors to anyone. But the problem is that by sheer luck, japanese people think "hey! new york! gigantic US city! It's the perfect place for kyasao and famitsu to come see the US scene and vacation". So does new york have a duty to share their good fortune with anyone? Well, nobody's going to put a gun to their head, but if you won ten million dollars in the lottery, why not give a little to charity?

(Hint: if you make a big deal about this and take a side, you are the one that is creating the hostility and all those negative things you think it causes..)

The hostility was there before I posted, and I know it didn't go away AFTER I posted. I didn't make it, I just aired it. Bottling up the resentment and looking for a sneaky way to get your revenge later (like excluding someone from a gathering) is NOT a better solution.

It was their party, and we vf players are fortunate enough to be part of it and have the chance to attract the japanese players to come play us.

You have it a little backwards, new york NEEDS us (invitees) to draw japanese players and famitsu. If you feel we're priveleged to slap nuts with new york, then you're buying into their own propadanda - that new york is somehow different and special and has its own draw. It doesn't. Nobody is coming to play sal or andy, certainly kyasao isn't. So nobody's lucky to be playing in some loft in new york, they're lucky to be playing kyasao. That's an important difference. If kyasao had decided to spend his vacation ANYWHERE else on a whim, there'd be no invite bullshit or politics - anyone who wanted to come take a shot at kyasao would be free to.

 

You know creed your like a bad dog that you slap once on the head and you just cant learn your lesson.

You got grilled once for posting some clip of text from irc I wrote, then what did you do? You did it again and of course elicited the same response.

Who's the slow guy andy, the guy who gets "grilled" (lol) for posting irc text or the guy who still can't get that people hate him after five years of trolling?

Anyway, if you're ashamed of your words and don't want them posted publicly, all you have to do is stop. Personally, I think you should be ready to stand up for the things you say, whether they're IRC or not. To do otherwise is chickenshit. You know your rights as a US citizen, don't ya? Anything you say can and will be used against you...

it's those things you say on IRC or IM that are the cause of half the animosity that's happening here. I'm just making sure people are getting the whole story, so nobody goes around being deceived into thinking that florida just randomly attacks people on the board or elsewhere.

PS: What's your idea of a brutal smackdown? I don't remember anyone taking me to task for posting your PM's. You couldn't even "slap me down" in VF, you stand no chance here =)

 

Here's a prime example of why NY can't get along with even the NICEST ppl when they threaten NY's status as "NA's VF gods in their own minds!" Witness NERFnyc in his full glory as keeper of the peace after losing handily to Namflow during a live feed with a crowd of irc ppl taking it all in. You gotta love how NYC always finds a way to take credit for something, no matter what. If they win, the credit goes to them for being so damn good. If they lose, the credit goes to them for being so damn nice as to "let you win a few". Those cooky NYC guys, always being so darn nice to everyone, why I heard NERF was even kind enough to fake getting frustrated while nam was winning just to make the experience more real. What a guy!

[ QUOTE ]
CNYC » I decide to bradcast
« CNYC » and I guess some peeps mistook me wanting to let nammy do some show off
« CNYC » as GETTING OWNED
« CNYC » nice...
« CNYC » yes apparently shang
« CNYC » they must be alot better than you
« CNYC » or hiro
« CNYC » aside us fucking around our win % was constantly above 50%
Jerky» CNYC: nammy was doing pretty well from the looks of things Andy-Kun =D
CNYC » dude I just PG'ed all day
« CNYC » HELLOOOOO
CNYC » the brotha was on tape dude
« CNYC » gotta be nice to your guests
« CNYC » lol
« CNYC » man you guys should ask alex
`ghostdog» they're bound to be somewhere on the web
« CNYC » how did I do against NAMMY at 12am
« CNYC » when we first sat down to play
« CNYC » he was watching
« CNYC » just ask him I DARE YAH!
« slp_yps » lol
« Ma0Study » hrmm
«@ Shangster» so what was the score like?
« slp_yps » fine you guys are better, you rock!
« CNYC » I won 70 to 30
« CNYC » exact
« CNYC » then at 3am
CNYC » I kept doing PG throws (my fault) and generally fucking around since they were trying to leave
CNYC » so we turn the cam on at about 2:30 and let peeps watch
CNYC » I'm like well nammys going to japan
« CNYC » lets get some showcase matches going
CNYC » I'm even yelling out cmon make the matches interesting
CNYC » and of course were being nice
« CNYC » but you guys dont want us to be NICE
CNYC » WE'll MAKE THINGSA HOSTILE for everyone!

[/ QUOTE ]

Way to go NYC! Way to take 2 great guys, who are fairly new to the VF scene, yet can still compete head to head directly with you and totally try to alienate them with total BS spazing over retarded win ratios. Gee, the precision and overall smoothness in the way you're so easily able to pull this off is nearly alarming. It's almost like you've had plenty of practice beeing and ASS in the past.

Hey, what about it! Let's ask Alex and Rich how they feel about these kinds of remarks. I'm sure they can testify that indeed you are totally in line with your words, and everything is ok right? I mean, the logic is sound, let someone win to be nice, and then tell everyone knowing he'll have to hear about it that's what you did! Yeah, that's far betting than playing your best and beating him if you can. Way to be thoughtful!

As a general disclaimer, some of these lines were taken out of context because believe it or not, some ppl in the channel seemed disinterested in what NERFnyc was saying, so I've removed things that had nothing to do with his rant for obvious reasons.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Zero-chan said:

[ QUOTE ]

And of course I have to put the US scene down. The scene itself isn't inherently bad, and potential is there. It's stupid BS within the scene that makes it that way. I would be ELATED if the US VF scene got up to Japan's level. Crap like this will most certainly help to prevent it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Naive thinking. What is happening here is the result, not the cause of the NAVF scene. This is obvious to people who actually have attended gatherings and been around for awhile. /yawn, you (and more people than I care to name) obviously are completely clueless as to why it’s retarded to compare Japan and US like this. Sit down, get your Japanese wannabe ego out of your face and think it through.
In Japan, there’s actually a VF Arcade scene; it’s supplemented by a great PS2 translation with joysticks, great game magazine publications, and VF.net.
In the US, we get a shitty translation period. We have no arcades, no sticks, no magazine info, no VF.net. Nada. It’s like giving the cavemen a BMW. For god sakes Sega even intentionally made the save system to discourage you from playing people you don’t know!!! Do you have any idea how fucking pathetic that people like Namflow can be so good on a pad? A fucking pad for god sakes! Of course you don’t cuz you probably never met him.

Shit like this don’t happen in Japan not because people are “nicerâ€Â, it’s because they’ll just go play someone else.

And people need to shut the fuck up about giving your gayass opinions about who’s dicks what not. Adam and Andy have been hosting vf gatherings before you got off your mom’s nipples. Their attitude although pretty lame and sad is understandable. Adam alone has contributed more to the scene than any other person in the country since vf3, this is a fact. If you argue with this you are a tard. FL people are a great bunch; B1 and IMF are amazing players even NYC must admit. It sucks this shit is happening, but it would have happened to anyone given the circumstance. Aside from a couple of cocknockers who’s confused with their ego with vf skills, I’ve genuinely enjoyed the company of every NAVFers. So lay off and let them be.

Current Posters with Balls:
Blond1, Creed, MadNYC, ETP, adamYuki, ETP, stompoutloud

Current Fags:
Jerky, IMF, SuperGolden, DRE, GaijinPunch, Myke, Srider


Current posters you wish would just stfu:
Srider, replicant, GaijinPunch


Current most wanted posters:
Mr. Bungle, Shadowdean

 

In reply to several people,

Gajin, This whole topic is really a dispute between two cities FL and NYC, and not even all of Florida just three guys that are singled out on their team. Why I asked Blondie, IMF, or even Jedi to come take ownership was because they let Creed just simply go at it. It took 6 pages of posts for blondie to step in and write something vague, he could have stepped in several dozen written pages back and given a direct view instead of having everyone listen to hearsay from Creed.

From Creed,

[ QUOTE ]
When you have virtually no comp...you rely on these gatherings to keep your own personal interest in VF alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

We havent exactly had tons of invite gatherings, we open to doors to everyone, almost everytime, and what do we get in return, crap from the very people who should be thankful. If you really believe how important the gatherings are to the scene then appeasing NYC should be your #1 concern, not writing boycott posts etc. You should have been asking FL (like I have by telling them to call) and to do whatever it takes to apologize to Sal for the greater good, by now its just too late.

[ QUOTE ]
You have it a little backwards, new york NEEDS us (invitees) to draw japanese players and famitsu. If you feel we're priveleged to slap nuts with new york, then you're buying into their own propadanda -

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is Creed making another gross assumption about the Japanese. Didn't we make it clear that we already told Kyasao what to expect? One thing that Gajin may understand from being in Japan is that they really respect who pays for dinner/events etc. If someone is paying for something and asks that people dont go, it ends there. Why you cant understand the most basic premise that Kyasao knew what to expect and that changing our minds is like telling people we should open the doors to our house to everyone I just dont get.

Also If I was SMACKED down, no one would come to our events. The very fact that they are coming means they understand the effort we put into the events. What did IMF's log show? I sent a PM directly to Supergolden about it. We are friends with them and both of us are smart enough to keep things very friendly. Would they say anything bad about any of us? Probably not. Why? In person we voiced our views to them about IRC, VFDC etc. more than a few times either at CTF or in my apt.

What IMF's log didnt show was that Creed and IMF took it as an opportunity to insult me and then make comments/assumptions about NYC's playing in general against namflow . They laughed, threw a couple names out, asked for footage, before I came on. Nice to NOT show the preview. Why dont you show what you guys were saying? Cause it makes you look like assholes?

Going back to creed, unless you post the whole context of the IRC text don't even bother, cause there are hundreds of people who arent even on vfhome, so it makes no sense.

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is coming to play sal or andy, certainly kyasao isn't. So nobody's lucky to be playing in some loft in new york, they're lucky to be playing kyasao.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another stupid assumption. Yes we could have gotten Kyasao to come play just us, Kazu in fact in the spent most of his time convincing both his friends and the japanese about the other NYC players where he plays, not the rest of the country. People are also lucky to be playing in a loft. The loft will give people a chance to experience NYC living in the BEST area of the city, cheap eats, taking a VF break, general convenience and affordability make it very important. Dont try and play it down, see its crap like that that makes me upset at gathering comments.

At this point nearly everyone on our team is upset at you or FL. If you believe the gatherings are important to the scene, for the greater good, its not asking us to accept it or change that works, it YOU AND FL that need to accept and change that does work. How could any of this been avoided. Well NYC could have sucked it up and accepted it or FL and you could have accepted and tried harder/made strides to make things good with NYC no matter how long it takes.

It's like asking the USTA to change the rules for a few select players, instead of asking the players to accept the way things are.

 

Listen, If Creed wants to come on here an fight the good fight for is, then thats creed, you fight with him. Creed knows what hes doing and can take so comments made about him(unlike some people).

He is not battling our battles because he is voicing his ideas.

You want us to apologize and end this, you want us to man up and continue arguing with you. Pick one!!! /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

If you really believe how important the gatherings are to the scene then appeasing NYC should be your #1 concern, not writing boycott posts etc. You should have been asking FL (like I have by telling them to call) and to do whatever it takes to apologize to Sal for the greater good, by now its just too late.

As I've said before to you in PM - an apology that is forced and isn't genuine is worthless. I don't think anyone wants to appease sal's childish ego just so they can play VF, even vs. Kyasao. I wouldn't ask florida to apologize to sal any more than I'd ask them to literally eat a mouthful of shit.

Appeasing new york is NOT the priority.
Playing VF vs good comp and promoting the scene is.

We all know you're running events for your personal amusement anyway. You're just looking for someone to suck your dick and say "o0hhh andy! You have put sooOo much MONEY put into playing this video game! We all looOvE and respect you for it!" ..it's kinda sad to see a grown 'man' CONSTANTLY fish for validation and thanks and props and respect and blah blah blah. Stop acting like an asshole when you're online, and maybe you'll finally get some love. If you're not willing to do that, you'd better get adam or sal to be your fluffer.

I think the scene would be better and healthier if half of the NY crew fell into a tar pit. If you want to go into a childish fit and say "fine, we'll have nothing more to do with the community and won't hold any more gatherings" ... it'd thrill me to death.

The very fact that they are coming means they understand the effort we put into the events.

Wrong, the fact that they are coming shows that they want to play tetsujin.
Nothing more. They don't give a fuck whether they're sleeping with two pillows and an adjustable mattress or one pillow and a couch. You think half the people would bother if you just said "come play me and andy and sal!@!" ? Do you think fewer people would come if it were e.g. florida hosting 10 japanese players? Actually MORE people would come because there aren't any NY people at the wheel.

Going back to creed, unless you post the whole context of the IRC text don't even bother, cause there are hundreds of people who arent even on vfhome, so it makes no sense.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand

« CNYC » as long as adam and I hold the wallets
« CNYC » its an unfortunate fact fl has to accept

You also don't need backstory to figure out

That said, we don't owe the community really anything

That pretty much says it all.

unless you post the whole context of the IRC text don't even bother, cause there are hundreds of people who arent even on vfhome, so it makes no sense

LOL, you and your whiny "posting IRC logs is unfaaaair and insultiiing" attitude. You act like it's a cheap shot or out of bounds for anyone to quote the retarded things you say almost every single day. Just for you I'm going to post the ENTIRE context and what I was saying while you were getting 'owned':
<font color="white">Link</font>

OK so far, this looks pretty casual and friendly to me, right? I keep saying "owned" and make a crack about the golden's win rate, but it should be kind of clear that I'm just yanking your chain and laughing along with you (and jerky and cappo etc). Christ knows you've talked some SERIOUS smack along these lines before, and I don't feel like I have to pull any punches.
Still, I said in a VFDC PM later that I was only kidding, and actually hadn't watched even 1 second of the broadcast (my exact words). I wasn't honestly saying you were getting raped andy, though it sounds like you had your work cut out for you.

Then I get THIS ridiculous fucking PM, which shows how dealing with the new york scene is like dealing with angry retarded kids:


« CNYC » u fucking fuker
« CNYC » u are biased fucking fuker
« CNYC » u are biased I post too much of me winning and its either boring playing or you just dont like it
« CNYC » u are biased I post ANYTHING of me losing you like it and I get owned...
« CNYC » nice the broadcasts are stopping and you and your main cronie can suck it, I was being nice again but screw that if you like hostility
« CNYC » i'll keep it hostile between you fl and me and NYC
« CNYC » frankly your comments to everyone in NYC sound stupid and absurd
« CNYC » i'm inclined to take all of VFDC down because of you
« CNYC » I've mentioned it to dodee in the past, and if you so much as annoy me anymore it'll happen

We've since discussed this and I think we agreed that trying to destroy the site and community was not a good solution. But jesus, I'm not the guy who takes stuff out of context, blows it out of proportion, or does unprovoked attacks. Florida isn't either. YOU are. You can't look at the way you act objectively, but just read that again and tell me you aren't at least embarrassed.

I'm only the twentieth person to say it for the millionth time... but everything that happens in the VF community isn't about you or new york (or florida). Realizing the rest of the world doesn't revolve around you is the first step towards moving out of childhood and growing up.

 

[ QUOTE ]
What IMF's log didnt show was that Creed and IMF took it as an opportunity to insult me and then make comments/assumptions about NYC's playing in general against namflow . They laughed, threw a couple names out, asked for footage, before I came on. Nice to NOT show the preview. Why dont you show what you guys were saying? Cause it makes you look like assholes?


[/ QUOTE ]

Andy!!! Have you seen this "preview" yourself??! I couldn't find it dude. It wasn't there when I looked. I don't know who told you I was badly making fun of you man, but it didn't happen. You can check the logs yourself, I'll send them to you. You can't believe what you hear or what "spies" say all the time. = P I asked if anyone had the footage of nam playing, and said nam was Hot etc... I did not, and would not just come out and down your play like you say I did dude. Where's the proof?? You guys putting the live feeds up was cool I thought, and trust me, I know if I said anything derogatory about you and your feeds you'd be sure to hear about it. Why would I want to mess up something a lot of ppl were enjoying? If you think I bashed you, then please find the log. I didn't bash you dude. I said nam was the man once, or something like that. Don't take that personally please!

 

Yey, I'm all the way in Japan and still get take part in my first Florida NYC flame war, I'm so lucky. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
MadNYC said:
What did IMF's log show? I sent a PM directly to Supergolden about it. We are friends with them and both of us are smart enough to keep things very friendly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just read the logs so as not to take things out of context, and I think IMF actually did you a favor by not posting all of it. Somehow I don't think those comments about our visit to your apartment were you keeping things "very friendly" since they weren't very friendly comments. So what if people say "NAM OWNED ALL" or said I was doing good or that I was the man, you can just log off of IRC or minimize the window instead of dragging me into this drama bs by putting me down to trying to save some face.

Anyways, no matter what the circumstances are, I wouldn't get on IRC and start talking smack like "yea Andy beat me when I was rusty after a day's worth of boring ass orientations in my first matches since Top Gun, but once I got warmed up man was it on! And he started getting visibly upset and his throws weren't coming out so I felt bad for him, ya know?" Fuck that.

Don't get me wrong Andy, you've always been ridiculously nice whenever super and I went up to NYC. When people on #vfhome would tell me you were a troll and a dick I couldn't believe it. "Andy? That Andy? No way, he's the nicest dude out there." And you even said it yourself when we came play at your apartment, something like "Don't believe the rumors, they're not true!" And for the longest time I didn't.

But I guess I'm left with no other choice. If I go to someone's house to play them in VF, I don't want them to get on IRC 5 minutes after I leave and start talking trash about me behind my back, no matter what the circumstances. I don't get on IRC and talk smack about the people I play, I'd expect the same kind of respect back.

This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. I don't go play someone to keep track of my win%, I go because playing Virtua Fighter is what I enjoy doing. I thought the matches we had were good matches, and then I read this kind of stuff and it's just like "wtf did I do?"

I mean I got some thick skin and it doesn't bother me to much. At the same time, I certainly don't feel welcome to someone's house if that's how my visit is being viewed. After reading those logs, I feel like alex and I were more enemies in your eyes than friends playing a game together. And saying things like that with the obvious intention of making yourself look better and putting down me and my brother is most certainly not a good way to "keep things very friendly." As the cliché goes, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

Unfortunately nam, this is the way NYC treats ppl. And if you speak out about it. Not only might you get banned from their events, you might just get your life threatened by one of them online. Because, it's ok for them to say these things behind ppls backs, but if you respond to it in a negative way, then you don't appreciate everything NY does for VF in this country. In their own words, basically, they not only think they created VF for the US to play, but they own the entire scene too! HAH!

This upcoming event NY is hosting should be about NA putting on it's best face for the visitors coming to see what it's like here in our country. But it's not, it's just about NY paying for some face time in famitsu. And they couldn't care less if anyone else is there to be honest. It's not their responsibility after all. That's really sad. "With great power comes great responsibility" Haha, you don't even have to open a book to learn that one, just watch the Spiderman movie. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif There's a lesson NY could learn from, if you have the power to make this event happen, then YES you do have the responsibility to make it happen right. Whether you shirk this responsibility or not is just a reflection on your character NY. "To test a man's character, give him power" is something Lincoln said, well NY had the power to make things better and bring everyone together like spotlite's been pleading with them to do all along. Let's see if they've still got the guts in them to change anything. Come on NY, I DARE YOU, make a change, for the better of the whole scene. Even if it's just your next post, not trying to point a finger at someone else, that will be good enough for me. Take a step in the right direction, lets end all of this. No apologies necessary, just move on. And begin to tear down the little wall you have built around NYC that keeps everyone without written invitations and the secret handshake on the outside. For the better of the VF scene where we live. Can you do it?

 

[ QUOTE ]

Why I asked Blondie, IMF, or even Jedi to come take ownership was because they let Creed just simply go at it. It took 6 pages of posts for blondie to step in and write something vague, he could have stepped in several dozen written pages back and given a direct view instead of having everyone listen to hearsay from Creed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. I thougth Blondie handled it rather maturely to be honest. What would be the results if Blondie came in and spouted a bunch of hot air? Nothing but 6 more pages of nonsense. Even Shang, who obviously doesn't know jack shit about anything knows that Blondie is a poster with ballz. Then again, I'm on his fags list, and personally, I don't find it very insulting. Some of my best friends are gay, and they're great people.

[ QUOTE ]

One thing that Gajin may understand from being in Japan is that they really respect who pays for dinner/events etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

While this is a valid point, I don't think it's going to make anyone decide left or right. This is a job for Kyasao. Whoever pays for the event, sets the rules. That's the way it goes. He's not in a position to throw out opinions. (This is generally what Blondie was getting at but from the organizer's point of view). Whether or not the underlying setting of the event is right or wrong, or good or bad for the NAVF scene is an entirely different story.

[ QUOTE ]

Current Fags:
Jerky, IMF, SuperGolden, DRE, GaijinPunch, Myke, Srider


[/ QUOTE ]

Bend over, baby! Here I come!

[ QUOTE ]

Current posters you wish would just stfu:
Srider, replicant, GaijinPunch


[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, we won't be doing that.

 

I feel compelled to reply to you Kreedo, since I think you took some of what I said the wrong way. Since this is such a touchy subject and you're right in the smack middle of the issue, I think your emotions might have caused you to preemptively renounce my words.

1) When I said "Random Players", i'm talking about random joe blow who bought VF Evo just because it's $20. You have to remember that it's not only the regular VF'er that visits this site. You think if I camped outside of my local babbages and ask'ed anyone who bought VF4evo if they wanted to fly to New York to play a Tetsujin, they would even know what the hell I'm talking about? Obviously when people like the Goldens and FL crew were not "Random" people when most vf'ers took notice of them. They've been active at local smaller events. It's only a matter of the scale we both look at things, and that our definition of "random players" were different.

2) It's obvious that having kyasao there is a draw. The reason why I kind of undermined the presence of Kyasao is because the presence of FOUR great JP players was not enough to attract "Random Players". (Evo 2k3 did not attract much random players at all if any) So why would having Kyasao be a bigger draw than having the likes of Chibita and Ohsu? I can pretty much guarantee most of the new players, (again definition of New is important) will not know who the hell kyasao is and really would careless.

3) What you said about events keeping the interest of VF is true, I can't deny that. On the contrary, NYC is only ONE of many events taking place in NA. For example, I try to make it to all the smaller events that are closer to me. How come I don't usually see new people at these events? I try to show up and show them what VF is all about, but you can't deny that interest in VF is pretty much non existent in NA. If anything, people should try to make it to the smaller local events that regular vf'ers make an appearance at. (For example, go to the South Carolina event at the end of October, I will be there if nothing happens) For most new players, driving a few hours playing comps that are closer to their level is far better than spending a ton of money to get owned. Yes they can witness pros at play if they go to something like NYC of FSB, but this goes back to what I said earlier. Those that would want to spent a ton of money for NYC or FSB maybe are not "new" players......

4) On the issue of me making potshots at you... I apologize if you took it that way. That comment was not aimed at you at all... Look at your sig... it says team hydra. I don't know how you considered yourself to be an outsider. The bulk of my post is aimed at all the "random and new" players out there. But really, there would be no apparent drama if people didn't bring them up. Like how Zero-Chan and GaijinPunch had commented about the Japanese scene. Intense Rivalries does exist in Japan, and even Yamagishi had said to us in LA that alot of Japanese players are poor losers. People say how the Japanese scene is so much more modest, well, it's only because people don't bring it out to the public. This is what I mean when I said what I said. Again, I apologize if I offended you.

5) The their event thing, I was referring to Evo2k3. Not NYC. So I wasn't spreading some sort of pro-nyc propaganda. Regardless, I don't know what exactly NYC had said to attract Kyasao to come, but I'm not going to make any assumptions about it. You can think that he is coming with the idea that all of NA is coming, or maybe he is just coming cause NYC paid for them to come. The fact is though, NYC IS a big city, and NYC DID pay for him to come. So if you are going to say NYC bought a tetsujin to come for competition, well, that is exactly what happened. So none of us can really have a say in what NYC has planned. If you don't think it's fair... I guess you can round up some money and get a tetsujin to come yourself, or you can organize an event like evo2k3 and attract chibita and other players.

I'm not saying what NYC is doing is right or wrong, but I will say they have the right to do whatever they do. I personally think it should be an open to all event as well, but it's not my event, so I won't try to change things. But really, if people are going to take a side, only time will tell what happens.

A) Few people show up at NYC and Kyasao thinks USVF sucks and tells people not to come back.
B) Few people show up at NYC and Kyasao have a good time and tells people to come to US and have a good time.
C) NYC turns into open to all, many people show, Kyasao have a good time.
D) NYC turns into open to all, many people show, Kyasao gets pissed at disrespective "New Random" player. Says US scene sucks and tell people to not come back.
E) People show up at NYC and have a good time, further tolerates invites.
F) People boycott NYC, event turns into failure, NYC decides not to do anymore events.

etc. etc. etc.

There are tons of things that can happen, some will help the growth of the scene, some will not. That is basically what I am saying, which is why my attitude towards this is "Let it Be" The only thing I'd suggest for other people is.. stay out of the rivalry. If people fans things and get involved, this conflict will never be resolved.

There is not a lack of VF events in NA, it's only a matter of people making the effort and going or not.

1) Stl. Labor Day Battle (I was seriously going but ran into trouble at school that I need to resolve. There will be up and coming players there, go support them.)
2) NYC Invite only (If you are on the list, go for Kyasao's sake and you'll also face heavy competition)
3) Florida Super Battle (The premiere NA VF4 event with Sega sponsorship. Open to all, try your hardest to make it to this. I'll most likely be there)
4) South Carolina Major (This is going to have some APEX stuff going on I believe, but VF4 evo is going to be there. There's a list somewhere of tentative players, many of whom I've never heard of. I'll most likely be there to show off /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif and get new people to play /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

Now I understand that NYC is the only one on the list with Japanese player presence, but guess what. Up to a few weeks ago, Evo 2k3 is the only event with Japanese players, and it caught us by surprise. This is awfully similar to the NYC event. Who is to say a few weeks down the road, there won't be some sort of event with Minami Akira or Segaru? (I'd kill to play against Segaru.. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) Since the path between NA and JP VF seems to have opened up, who knows what to expect down the road. Even the Arcadia guys had said in LA that they are going to consider having US qualifiying for the next tougeki. It seems that for up and coming players, now is a very good time for VF, and missing NYC is probably not going to be the end of the world.

My suggestion for the "new players" that are readin this is "GO TO FSB!!" and if you are close to any local events in Jamboree... try to go just to see what VF is all about. I know people in LA, Ohio, Stl, Boston, Florida, NYC, even here in TN /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif and probably other places that I don't know have great VF players who plays regularly. So don't be shy. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Well, I'm going to stop now, since I've gone off topic there, and I don't want to fan the flames any more. I just felt like I own you an explaination. I'm not taking a side, it's just my perspective on this invite event issue. I just wish I don't get put on some sort of secret shit list hehe...


p.s. Being on Shang's fag list is a priviledge though muwahahah. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
Srider said:

p.s. Being on Shang's fag list is a priviledge though muwahahah. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif How do I get on that fucking faggady ass list, it would be pimping, you hear. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

1) When I said "Random Players", i'm talking about random joe blow who bought VF Evo just because it's $20. You have to remember that it's not only the regular VF'er that visits this site.

That's a fine point, except what kind of guy is going to buy a 20 dollar copy of the game to save 30 bucks, not get into posting on VFDC, but still drive hours (or fly) to go? It'd cost him as much as a new copy of evo just to walk in the door and play each day.

To me there's absolutely no cause for concern that some scrubby schmuck is going to crash nyc's party. It's just not gonna happen. So there's no need to do invites just to keep out the scrubs.

So why would having Kyasao be a bigger draw than having the likes of Chibita and Ohsu? I can pretty much guarantee most of the new players, (again definition of New is important) will not know who the hell kyasao is and really would careless.

Well, it wouldn't. You're supporting my point /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
This does NOT need to invite only because even open tournaments like evo didn't get an unmanageable flood of noobs.

Really, all this talk of accomodating lots of people or keeping out scrubby players isn't needed, since adam said publicly and in no undertain terms that the invitation system was not to keep out scrubs, but ONLY to keep three guys from coming.

On the issue of me making potshots at you... I apologize if you took it that way. That comment was not aimed at you at all... Look at your sig... it says team hydra. I don't know how you considered yourself to be an outsider.

My bad, sorry... I hear shit like that from sal all the time. In my previewed reply I was actually gonna say "man you're starting to sound like sal. When you start sounding like sal, it's time to check yourself." ... but I scrapped it because it was mean. For some reason new yorkers like andy consider me an outsider in this and keep trying to call out blondie and imf (because obviously he can't handle me /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

So if you are going to say NYC bought a tetsujin to come for competition, well, that is exactly what happened. So none of us can really have a say in what NYC has planned. If you don't think it's fair... I guess you can round up some money and get a tetsujin to come yourself, or you can organize an event like evo2k3 and attract chibita and other players.

Sure, if I don't think it's fair (and I don't).. those are two options.
This thread is option #3 for guys who can't afford the first 2.
It's not the ideal solution, but it's the best solution I can personally come up with since throwing andy into a vat of acid isn't legal.

I personally think it should be an open to all event as well, but it's not my event, so I won't try to change things.

To quote pulp fiction: Well shit negro, that's all you had to say.

You seemed kinda pro-NY and pro-invite in the previous post. I dunno if I misread or if you had a change of heart, but I'm glad you feel it should be open. We agree here.

The only thing I'd suggest for other people is.. stay out of the rivalry. If people fans things and get involved, this conflict will never be resolved.

...aaaand we disagree here. Resolutions don't come through inaction. If you think something is shitty, I strongly encourage you (I mean everyone) to speak out. That's how things like segregation came to be fixed, or at least improved.
There's nothing wrong with voicing an opinion on matters like this, and I'm glad people are taking the time to do it. Maybe it won't change new york, but if anyone else out there wanted to do an invite only event (god forbid), they might change their mind.

Sounds like you're done here...thanks for your 2c - see you on irc.

 

I haven't kept up with the thread for a bit...and i want to reply to this post even though it was posted a day ago...

You wanna make it like that, it might help if people were actually coming you *YOUR* house. But this isn't your house, it's some loft, and tons of guys you don't even know will be there.

Okay then, so fookin' what?!?! Ultimately, no one gets to tell *me* who comes to my party.

I'd expect that for 1000 bucks you can fit more than a handful of people. You make it sound like there are two beds, a couch, and the floor. I'm sure it's not THAT cramped. Anyway, Blondie couldn't make this gathering, so what's one more guy, for example imf or pablo?

FL not being invited had nothing to do with space! I never said that. FL not being invited had everything to do with Sal's beef with them. Period. Barring FL, a completely open event with a huge turnout (25+) just wouldn't be possible within that space.

Jesus, how chickenshit is it for you to sit there on an instant messenger, listen with a straight face while florida says "let's put the drama behind us, come to fsb"... and not say anything at all about your kyasao gathering?

Damn! Please get your facts straight! The conversation on instant messenger about FSB was well over a month ago (right after that flame war about Kazu not being considered part of NY team by you and your)! At that time, all i knew was that we wanted Kyasao in NYC to play against, and as far as i was concerned, FL *needed* to be there. But Kyasao was confirmed only about 2 weeks ago, and in that time it was decided that Sal wanted and needed to be at this event more so than FL (IMF & B1 already had the pleasure of playing aginst him in Korea). Where is the backstabbing?! I regret that i didn't give FL an explanation right after sending out the PMs, as that allowed them to go berzerk and show their true colors on IRC (calling me names and trolling in general). Again, after that, I just didn't even feel like talking with them, much less inviting their asses to "my party".

If florida got a tetsujin at a gathering and said "everyone but NY can come", you damn well wouldn't be defending their right to do it. You'd be jumping up and down on their nuts and saying "SEE? These guys are ASSHOLES!".

Umm...no, no we wouldn't. I can pretty much say that with complete certainty. We would just try to make our bi-annual events that much hotter.

New york is a mixed bag, and it's EXTREMELY fortunate you guys seem to have a steady influx of cash and visiting japanese players... otherwise there'd be no good parts in the mix.

I don't know, our previous gatherings were pretty hot w/ most attendees - this was before we starting "buying" tetsujins (laff).

If you and andy and sal been born in upstate new york, 100 miles outside of the city, you'd have dick. There aren't any tetsujin coming to fucking new paltz or buffalo to learn english or meet USA competition, so you owe half of what you have to sheer random -luck- and japan-grown resources.

Right - we never said that we don't owe anything to our Japanese friends living in NY - so how is that statement false. Oh, i get it!! These Japanese players living in NY don't count as NYers! :ROLLSEYES: Sparring with them has raised the skill level of most all of the players in NYC. I guess this is the way we evolved - like it or not. Because of this "random-luck-and japan-grown resources" and hence the high comp level in NYC, we've never really felt compelled to look elsewhere. We owe THEM a great deal - for helping to create a hot VF scene in NY.

But that reputation was around *before* florida according to at least two other vets I know.

*Groan* - I wonder what "old-skool" drama these "vets" are klinging on to. Hmm...I wonder how many years ago this is...If these 2 vets are who i think they are, they shouldn't be exempt from the "backstabber" label.

As long as there's horrible hospitality online then you'll always have to buy competition and endure having your well-deserved reputation.

OOOOOooooohhh....ouch. Such a chip on your shoulder, about this whole NY and money thing, eh? From most of your posts - this issure really *bothers* you doesn't it? I feel bad for you.

Even before we started sponsoring / "buying" (LOL) international players (back when the draw was the presence of other great players in the US, free or cheap hotel rooms, a couple of projectors, and unlimited play), we always had great turnouts! Again, most of the attendees had a blast and many became good friends. They will continue to attend (along with some new players that will become friends hopefully) and we'll continue to have a GREAT time, no matter how much negative spin you and a handful of your IRC cronies put on NYC and their events.

But the problem is that by sheer luck, japanese people think "hey! new york! gigantic US city! It's the perfect place for kyasao and famitsu to come see the US scene and vacation". So does new york have a duty to share their good fortune with anyone?

Kyasao was invited as our guest. We invited him to chill and play with us. Kazu approached Kyasao with ONLY this premise. Again, we didn't promise him or Famitsu an exhaustive representation of the US VFscene. It just happens that Kyasao has mad connections within Famitsu, so they thought it would be cool to cover this relatively small and private event. If we told Kyasao that representatives from all regions will be present at the event, then I agree that invite only would not be the best way to go. But, given the premise that Kyasao was approached with (AS A GUEST OF NYC), i feel there is nothing wrong with this event being invite only.


<font color="yellow">STOP THE NY HATING!!</font> (Andy, dog, we gots to make a T-shirt with that phrase and pass that shit out at the gathering/tourney - especially to Kyasao and his JP crew. HotnASS!#%#)

 

[ QUOTE ]
Damn! Please get your facts straight! The conversation on instant messenger about FSB was well over a month ago

[/ QUOTE ]

We had a little conversation going the day you sent the invitations out, with me talking to Andy for well over an hour on msn and for a small protion of it he had you on the phone saying wassup to me. My whole point of the conversation was to invite andy to FSB because I heard he was feeling uncomfortable about coming. Neither one of you was able to say a single word while you had the chance. Creed has his facts straight.

And we waited until the next day when word came from kreed that you said no invites for FL before anything was said. Had you been up front about it, perhaps all of this would have been avoided.

 

Nammy I would like you to remember one thing that will help make you successful in life. When you are faced with a situation that you have to decide to believe one person or the other.

Actions speak louder than words.

Regardless of what is written on screen, a quote in an IRC log, or information passed through a third party, you always have to interpret what a person would do based on their RL actions. Your interaction with me is like 80/20, 80% IRL and 20% online which is the way it should be.

If we in NYC believed everything that was written on screen about one another we would be at each others throats but "actions speak louder than words". We know there is a reason behind everything, and when you know someone in person, like taking me for example, you know 90% of the time, people can ellicit a certain type of response from me by talking about things in a certain way about me, NYC events etc. So I ask you to understand that there is always more going on that whats presented, info from other sources, people calling to tell me stuff etc.

Our actions speak more than 1000x Creeds Boycott Posts or 5000x Blonde1 flames combined. Which is why people come to NYC events and also why most people just ignore it; which of course creed doesnt think is true.

Going back on topic with creed

The reason why you are so inflamed jealous is because no matter how many words you write on the screen, you know our history of actions says more than anything said in these posts. Our gatherings will continue to happen and our events will get larger and better.

You made another stupid assumption that we have unlimited time and resources. If anything an hour of our time has a greater value than an hour of yours. (Maybe Gajin can chime in since I heard he is working in financials) We are put under tremendous pressure at work. If you knew adam he works insane hours as do I. An hour of your time might be spent on IRC, but an hour of my time has a value since I am probably required to do more hours and pressured from work. Time is also not on our side because of the same reasons.

So if we spend it organizing VF events, even for our own pleasure, when outside people come -- inivitation or not -- it deserves alot of respect once you know the amount of effort it takes.

Think about a RL situation, many times someone is being an ASS and you tell them layoff cause they are under pressure and work really hard. If this person supports something you like you tell them to layoff even more. Your assumptions that we have unlimited time and resources is just designed to fuel your incredible dislike for NYC.

 

Ultimately, no one gets to tell *me* who comes to my party.

Whatever. Sal has told you who gets to come to "your" party.

Barring FL, a completely open event with a huge turnout (25+) just wouldn't be possible within that space.

You handled a big turnout of 25+ at nyg3 before, and I bet NYG2 was similar.

Damn! Please get your facts straight! The conversation on instant messenger about FSB was well over a month ago

That's not what I've heard. What I've heard is that a conversation of that nature happened HOURS before invites went out.

I regret that i didn't give FL an explanation right after sending out the PMs

"yeah, oops, oversight". And cowardly. You honestly hoped to pull it off... sneak kyasao into the country, get a few americans to play him, and then quietly bask in the afterglow all without florida having any idea that they were blackballed from a tournament. That's just WEASELLY.

Umm...no, no we wouldn't. I can pretty much say that with complete certainty.

Your fingertips have given you away. "Complete Certainty" doesn't jive with the term "pretty much". You can't stand to lie like this, can ya?
Well, it's easy for you to pretend like you'd pat them on the back and not raise a stink.

that allowed them to go berzerk and show their true colors on IRC (calling me names and trolling in general

They were blackballed from a tournament with 10 japanese players. Of COURSE they're going to be fucking pissed! You earned every swear word you got called when you decided sal's childish vendetta was more important than a friendly relationship with the florida crew.

Right - we never said that we don't owe anything to our Japanese friends living in NY - so how is that statement false.

The false statement is HOMEGROWN. You said NY skill is completely homegrown. It's nothing like that. You keep insisting Hiro and Kazu are 'true nyc crew members'. Ok, if that's a fact, then their skill was not grown right at home, at CTF, the way yours or andy's was. It was grown in japan. What're you gonna claim next, japan is also your home?
Face it dude, 2 out of the 4 or 5 hot players in new york have IMPORTED SKILLZ.
You're singing the praises of your tricked-out made-in-the-usa Ford when it's got a Nissan Skyline engine under the hood.

we'll continue to have a GREAT time, no matter how much negative spin you and a handful of your IRC cronies put on NYC and their events.

lol, this isn't an "irc clique vs NY" thing, this is like half the VF community veterans vs three guys who keep insisting on defending asshole behavior. The "handful" you're referring to is at least 20 people, and I know it'd be more if people weren't worried about the fact that they can't really show up to play kyasao after calling you out online.

Anyway, believe what you want, but if I had the money and a dad who owned a hotel and connections to japan, I could easily hold "great events with HOT HOSPITALITY!!@!!@!@" too. The difference is that MY hospitality wouldn't be started or ended with trash talk, drama, and disparaging comments, and nobody in my crew would get away with threatening to beat up attendees.

Even if you can claim a smile and a handshake and enough beds to go around, some aspects of new york gatherings are just fucked - the drama over the "slower" setup at nyg3, the broken promises for the DVD, the retardedness I had to go through with directions, the snotty post-tournament jabs at me (like the blatant lie andy made up about how llanfair said "creed sucks")... I'm not even getting into the stuff I didn't personally attend, tho I've heard about the cramped conditions at nyg1 for example.

The big problem isn't the arrangements though, it's mostly just the jackass behavior online. If new york could be as cool online as they are face-to-face, there wouldn't be any drama.

But, given the premise that Kyasao was approached with (AS A GUEST OF NYC), i feel there is nothing wrong with this event being invite only.

We both know kyasao would be fine with either arrangement. It's not like Kyasao would ever say (or privately think): "HEY! Kazu promised me a SMALL GROUP! Now they want me to deal with like 25 players? Fuck that! I don't want that!" Kyasao, being a japanese player, is used to groups of thirty people at his arcade every single day.

STOP THE NY HATING!! (Andy, dog, we gots to make a T-shirt with that phrase and pass that shit out at the gathering/tourney - especially to Kyasao and his JP crew. HotnASS!#%#)

Maybe you can print some swastikas on the arms!
Just fucking with you /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif