BOYCOTT: don't support invite-only bullshit in NYC!

Hmmm...like spotlite, I don't really want to take sides, but here are my thoughts:

- I do think that ideally, the event should be open to all. The VF scene in the U.S. is small enough as it is, it doesn't need further fracturing! (Or, does it fracture precisely because it is so small?).

- However, whatever said, this IS after all NYC's thing. They took the trouble to invite Kyasao and Shu, arrange for their logistics, shoulder the finances...they have earned the right to decide who gets to enjoy the benefits and how much each participant should contribute. (All things said and done, it is still a choice). Creed, it's not your party--it's theirs. If you want everyone in the U.S. to get to play Kyasao--arrange another event on your own; then you get to dictate the rules. While I can't agree with NY's collective decision, it's still their decision to make.

- These things are DAMN hard to organize, so I fully salute the NY guys for going through all this trouble. If they can turn a profit from this, then good for them...but I seriously doubt the motives are financial. The fact of the matter is these types of things are almost never profitable; otherwise we'd see a lot more Japanese players coming over and this whole fracas wouldn't even be an issue.

- Kyasao and Shu are coming to the U.S. for U.S. competition?! The idea makes me smile, and I wager they're coming for the experience and not to improve their VF abilities. Just a guess.

- I totally respect the friendship and loyalty that Adam and Andy are showing Sal, even though I disagree with the degree of enmity that Sal has with Blonde1 and IMF (c'mon Sal, I've met these guys and they aren't bad!!).

- Finally, while the NY and FL groups have equal responsibility in the mess that this has turned out to be, all this public mud-slinging is simply not helping. By taking this topic online and public, Creed, you are making things worse. What do you hope to accomplish from introducing this thread? That the NY group would finally see the light, acknowledge the wisdom in your words, apologize to you and the FL group and throw the event open to everyone?

No, deep down you must know that this whole thing would only make relations even more strained.

If you want to be really helpful, I think the best thing to do would be to act as peacemaker (and not war incitor!) and broker a compromise between NY and FL. Whether this means calling them up, talking to them privately, holding a chat which you can moderate and keep unrelated and unhelpful parties uninvolved...whatever. The point is there are better things that you can do instead of opening up another useless flamewar. Can we not learn from history?

 

you people need to loose the sugar coating shit and get down to the point. None of this smileies and joking shit. Get to the point and maybe there will be a solution. Let's stop the talking behind the back and bring it ON!
Anyone who talks nice from now on is a fag!

 

I don't have much to say. You guys are welcome to FSB. There's no point in finger pointing or any "you started it!" now. Maybe wait for blonde_one, if you're looking for something interesting to read. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Postscript: What is the boycott meant to accomplish? To get NY to mend their ways, or to teach Japanese players not to bother coming to the U.S. again? Boycotting is not a good solution.

 

Yeah yeah, No you didn't address my comments. You adressed Adams.

Lol, you're so retarded - you don't address ANYthing I say then have the nerve to say "you don't respond to my good points#!#"

... I said that I didn't realize at the time that plane tickets were also paid for. How hard is that to comprehend? I-THOUGHT-YOU-WERE-JUST-PAYING-FOR-THE-LOFT. Christ, dealing with you is like talking to a six year old sometimes.
So you're not making money. That's a big fucking deal, nothing to be especially proud of. It's clear you're spoiled rich to be able to do these things. So good for you!

When has ANY VF gathering made ANY money? Spending your own money on a gathering is nothing new. You might spend more money on this one, but we all know 1000 bucks doesn't hurt you the same way it might hurt a dozen other crews.

The difference between your gathering and past gatherings is that in the past, the only money charged has been a nominal amount for tournament entry fees. You're the first to charge money for no tournament and PS2 setups.

ENVY NY's Playing ability, PFFF thats so sad, your acting like a jealous little kid who can't get his candy and has to force his way in or you wont talk to me and trying to get VFDC to give NYC the silent treatment

You can't deny it. Whenever someone calls you out for acting like a retard (we're talking HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times) you always try to drag it back to VF skill, like that means shit in terms of getting along with the VF community. Your answer to everything is always "we play better than anyone so there's no reason we should answer for anything"

Why is it that other people who have publicly insulted new york in the past got invited? I've said more than once that you guys are a bunch of fucknuts and myke and llanfair have said it too... you've gotten really trashed by some people but are willing to invite guys who you think you can beat. Yet FLA, who we know can toast you when you're not being backed by kazu, did not. So maybe this IS about playing ability in some twisted way.

Anyway... I don't have to "force my way" into jackshit, I wasn't deprived of any "candy". I got an invite and I could have made it with no problems. You, sal, and adam were all ok with me before the post and there's no reason I would have had to kiss any ass or raise a stink in order to go. I CHOSE to throw away my invitation and make an issue out of it because I think you guys are assholes for doing invite-only in the first place.

You'll never acknowledge the point but it's still clearly horseshit to try to *hide* the presence of a tetsujin in the USA and control who gets to play him. It doesn't matter even if you get everyone a brand new mattress and spend 10,000 bucks on plane tickets, it's STILL AN ASSHOLE STUNT TO PULL. Being rich doesn't excuse you from ANYTHING.

 

um, yeah, the boycott thread's purpose is obviously to convey to NY, that while they have the right to not invite ppl they don't like, other more sensible types have an equal right to say "WTF?!". and creed is trying to show to NY that there are more ppl in the "WTF?" category than not, and it would be better for the whole scene if they just dropped this whiney BS nonsense.

 

You're making it sound like Creed's intention is to diss NY. If that's the case, then that's a shame.

As for: "...and it would be better for the whole scene if they just dropped this whiney BS nonsense." I've already pointed out that this thread is not the most effective way of doing that (just the opposite, in fact).

 

[ QUOTE ]
To get NY to mend their ways, or to teach Japanese players not to bother coming to the U.S. again?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the people involved in the Western VF scene can't grow up, then why the hell should they waste their time coming?

It's not like there isn't hidden animosity in the Japanese VF scene. It's just that it doesn't rear its ugly head in the open like it does here. If you don't like someone, you deal. The only reason anyone would not be invited to a tournament there is if they were a jackass that ripped their card out of the machine constantly. "So-and-so dissed whats-her-face" would not fly.

Things like this seriously make me wonder if western VF will ever have the capability to thrive.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Zero-chan said:
Things like this seriously make me wonder if western VF will ever have the capability to thrive.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement obviously shows you have no clue what the US scene is like. This isn't Japan, comparing to it is retarded.

Current Posters with balls:
Creed and Andy (not suprised)

Current Fags:
IMF

Current People talking out of their ass:
Ice-9
ZeroChan

Current most wanted poster input:
Mr.Bungle

 

Maybe you didn't read Creed's initial post? Perhaps it was not so much a "diss", whatever that means anyway, so much as loudly voicing his sentiments of disapproval. I dunno, there's a "dis" in there somewhere either way.

 

By taking this topic online and public, Creed, you are making things worse. What do you hope to accomplish from introducing this thread? That the NY group would finally see the light, acknowledge the wisdom in your words, apologize to you and the FL group and throw the event open to everyone?

No, deep down you must know that this whole thing would only make relations even more strained.

The bottom line is that new york has always been childish, and various tactics (eg peacemaking, mediation, apologizing for imagined slights) has never changed it. These guys have hit their mid twenties and still act like they're in their early teens. There's no compromise for them. Sal has gotten an undeserved apology and replied by saying "pussy" and "fuck off". Sal is clearly not growing up any time soon. Andy? He's been trolling for five+ years now and there's no change in his attitude... even though dozens of reasonable people have called him out for it. He's actually getting WORSE. Adam is the best of them, and I sense he knows the difference between the right way and the wrong way to treat people, but he won't stand up for it because he doesn't want to strain relations between himself and his friends. Adam, if you're reading this, I can tell you from experience that it's possible to tell a friend "you're being an asshole and I'm not going to deal with you until you stop" and get results. It might not work for someone like sal, but then again it might. It depends on whether or not sal's really a friend.

Anyway. The peacemaker stuff does NOT work, so it's time to switch gears. This venting process is necessary because without it, the strain is still there, it's just festering and lasts a longer time.

Florida tried peacemaking only days ago: they were throwing all sorts of olive branches at adam in PM regarding FSB and how they hoped all of new york would put the bullshit behind them and come to it. This is literally just hours before the invitations were sent out. Yet adam STILL didn't invite them, and wasn't even decent enough to TELL them they were being blackballed from a gathering.
---
So what would you have people do jeff? Accomodate childish, antisocial, and generally disrespectful behavior so they can get a few games of VF in against good comp? I don't have it in me to ingratiate myself to assholes that way. What they're doing is harmful overall to NAVF - you recognize that, and you are NOT obligated to tiptoe around it and appear impartial with all this "on the other hand..." stuff.

You seem to be giving them respect for defending a friend (who's acting like an complete moron and should be taken to task for it) and for expending time and money to do something that is ultimately just an expensive form of personal entertainment for them. New york has already said in no uncertain terms that they aren't doing ANYTHING because they want to help the VF community. They just want a real gathering, which is more fun than 4 dudes sitting in a small room with a PS2, and they can afford to make it happen. There's absolutely NOTHING altruistic about it. If they thought kyasao would fly all that way just to play five new yorkers, they'd pony up the cash for a ticket in a heartbeat and say "fuck the rest of you, we got kyasao!"

---
Anyway, as to what I hope to accomplish - nothing, seriously. New york hasn't changed and isn't going to change as a result of anything I post. Maybe if 20 other people chimed in, they might, but even that's doubtful. It's a waste of time... all I can do is vent at their stupidity and open the gates for others to do the same if they want.

 

Most japanese dont have to rely on someone's hospitality like us Westerners do. It's easier for them to 'deal'

Just pointing that out. =)

 

I have a problem with all this NYC bashing. In particular the harsh words spoken about sal. Ive known sal for a long time now and feel he is a level-headed, kind, and polite contributor to the vf scene. He gets a back reputation for having a "shit list" just because he wears his feelings on his sleeves. I am positive that any decisions to exclude any particular players was due to their own actions and not just some spiteful decision by sal, because that is just not how he works, despite your best intentions to smear him.

I myself had the bad luck to make him sad at one point, but i can attest that he was a man about it, and let the situation slide. This whole topic of spite doesnt seem like sal to me. Even though at one point we had words, we are currently pen pals and spend long afternoons holding each other when we visit one another.

As for the situation of invite only, i think its a great idea. Videogame players should be kept segmented, because then each area gains its own play style, rather than having everyone playing against everyone else. In a situation in which everyone is invited, people could lose their individuality in play, and instead only learn to play in one way, which, while making them better overall against a wider field, would hurt their uniqueness.

NYC is preserving peoples special playstyles by holding them back from this kind of competition, and it should be commended.

Aswell, ive had long talks with Andy about this whole affair and he is distraught. Andy as those who know him can attest is one of those people who will do anything to please, and enjoys giving for the sake of giving, with no other strings attached. People try to thank him for his generosity and he blushes and stammers. For him, your fun is thanks enough.
So for him to hear people calling him names, and attaching sinister motives to his events is shameful. Find him on irc or in this boards anytime and you will see his sincerity and desire to make ammends. Be awed by his humble nature, i truly was.

Lastly, this goes out in particular to KreeD, with whom i have had very little contact. I would like to believe that most of this thread has been some kind of sick, elaborate joke. If not, then i worry about your sanity, when good people like the NYC people come off as such monsters in your eyes. They arent just helping the VF community to grow and improve, they ARE the vf community and we should cherish them. Florida is a sad pretender to the throne, and should grow up a little before worrying about being invited to parties.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Shang said:

[ QUOTE ]
Zero-chan said:
Things like this seriously make me wonder if western VF will ever have the capability to thrive.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement obviously shows you have no clue what the US scene is like. This isn't Japan, comparing to it is retarded.

Current Posters with balls:
Creed and Andy (not suprised)

Current Fags:
IMF

Current People talking out of their ass:
Ice-9
ZeroChan

Current most wanted poster input:
Mr.Bungle

[/ QUOTE ]



Hahahaha, that's great!!!!!!!! Way to keep score Shang.

 

[ QUOTE ]
ETP said:

Florida is a sad pretender to the throne, and should grow up a little before worrying about being invited to parties.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do you even know everyone that is in Florida that plays vf4? You have no clue what you are talking about when you mentioned Florida being a "sad pretender".

 

That was so sweet, ETP.

 

I said this in #vfhome a couple of minutes ago after reading this thread, and I might as well say it here: I think the fact that the NY people can pull this off makes the vf community less than desirable, at least for me anyways. When you see the SF and Tekken communities (the biggest ones) paying for JPN/Korean players flights and not having an invite-only tourney, but VF (the smallest) doing the exact opposite, you got to wonder if the NA VF community will ever grow bigger. Stuff like this isn't going to help the community thrive.

 

[ QUOTE ]
As for the situation of invite only, i think its a great idea. Videogame players should be kept segmented, because then each area gains its own play style, rather than having everyone playing against everyone else. In a situation in which everyone is invited, people could lose their individuality in play, and instead only learn to play in one way, which, while making them better overall against a wider field, would hurt their uniqueness.

NYC is preserving peoples special playstyles by holding them back from this kind of competition, and it should be commended.


[/ QUOTE ]
How is this supposed to help the U.S. scene? Keep players "segmented"? You must be smoking some really good shit.

Evo has finally been officially released in America, the "Jamboree" forum is very active, and you come up with this brilliant theory? Gently remove your head from your ass please.



Cheers,

DRE (Pretender to the throne)

 

Scary...

I was under the impression that he was being sarchastic... at least after all that 'holding'.

Could be wrong.

(my two cents: invite only is dumb, but it's their money)

Edit:

Seeing as the scene will be getting bigger because of EVO and all that....it's going to be harder and harder for people to get along. There's going to be even more rivalry than before.

It's just scary to think that our scene, if it gets popular, could degenerate into rudeness and pointless and stupid crap, like threatening to take someone's life. Do we, as VF players, really want our scene to become like other fighting game scenes? It's just a scary thought I had just now...we might drift farther and farther away from Japan's light hearted atmosphere and all turn into flaming, name calling idiots.

Lets all just be careful that doesn't happen.

 

Yeah, sorry to spoil any more potential flames ETP. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just want to point out to anyone who didn't get it at first, ETP is a funny guy.