Arcadia magazine's latest tier list

No surprise here. Japan basically hates the little girl. Trolls I tell ya.

 

I don't get it. Eileen doesn't really seem to be changed all that much from... whatever the last game was called (I forget). Like, all her moves seem the same, she has mostly the same options, the frames don't seem to be too different - all she seems to be missing is her old 46K kick that sabaki'ed things (which was useful and I do miss it).

I feel like the changes to the system might just have been unfriendly to her maybe? Like, my biggest problem is that I seem to get evaded a lot more often than in the previous iteration, but it doesn't feel like she has and fewer options than before, but just that maybe evading is stronger now? I'm not really sure.

But then, Jacky doesn't seem all that different either. I mean, he has more damage than before, and a few new gimmicky options that work on people not familiar with him, but the only things that seem like a straight buff are his bullshit flip-kick and the high punch from back slide shuffle. His low backfist seems worse because it's now linear, and the option to go into slide shuffle is now from the backfist rather than the canned follow-up (making it less profitable to go for the kick since the ability to bailout with a SS isn't there).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I disagree with the lists, I'm just saying it seems strange that, from the perspective of the two characters I play, there doesn't seem to be many changes, and they've kinda reversed their standings, since Eileen was considered high-tier in the last version and Jacky was on the low side.


Meh, just random musings...

 

He couldn't go into slide shuffle from in previous games....Personally I think is better in this game, the loss of tracking doesn't matter that much IMO.

And I really, really doubt the flipkick is even taken into consideration when they put him in the highest tier. Quite frankly, people who complain about the flipkick are stupid.

 

Bu... But Jeneric! The flipkicky is so fast at 14f exe! And... People don't like their guard button so they abare and eat it all day err day! Also Jeneric, the flipkicky when blocked has such immense guard stun that the arcade stick shatters into millions of pieces making it impossible to punish! And man, Jacky lands so far away from his flipkicky that all hope seems lost to hit him.

So please take back what you said about people being stupid, Rip in WNF would like a word with you; flipkicky's is LeGiT yO.

 

I just find the flipkick to be a really good option in abare situations at small disadvantages, or at countering delayed strikes/strings. Something simple like a side-kick with a few frames of delay before the canned follow-up, and if I can sneak in a flipkick, that's gonna be like 70 damage - something I'd only be able to get elsewhere with some kind of floater, which is a lot slower and harder to work in. I'm sure in 'super uber best players of doom land' then that stuff might not be as useful, but I'm just offering my limited experiences.

About the low backfist, I re-read the way I wrote it, and it kinda didn't make sense. I meant that it would (in my opinion) be better if the new option to go into SS was from the kick, rather than the backfist itself. I didn't mean to say that it used to be that way (even though I wrote it like that). I did prefer the half-circular properties of the previous versions though - it made it such a great round-ender, and it seems like it doesn't have as much range as before, but that might just be an illusion of the removal of the 'spin' part.

Getting back to Jacky and Eileen, if my amateur findings are somewhat (or completely) irrelevant, what reasons do you guys think make Jacky so much better than last iteration, and why is Eileen so much worse now?

Do you think the new 'guarding and throw-escaping at the same time' helps or hinders either of them? How about the 'counter hit out of evades'? I'm assuming the damage output for Jacky is part of the reason, but I'm not sure it's all about that (and Eileen's damage seems largely unchanged).

 

Japanese players rarely use Somersault, if it hits, 70+ Damge, if not, 90+ free Damage for the opponent. Not many Online Players are punishing blocked Somersault with max. Damage, thats why the Kick is viable online.

 

Anti-Flipkick Tip: The flipkick, when blocked, puts you in a massive guard stun that makes buffering the guaranteed punisher a little awkward or different from normal.

To punish flipkick, you either have to delay when inputting your punisher until Jacky's close to landing on the ground(recommended) or at least sustain the last input until either Jacky lands on the ground or your character's head is back at its normal spot (at least that's what I look at when I'm playing as Lion).

For example, I can punish with 66+P after blocking a flipkick. The tricky part is, I'm in this massive guard-stun that uses up a lot of frames so if I buffer that in right away, it won't come out.

I can either wait until Jacky is almost touching the ground to input 66+P or...

I can do 66____________+P (so I'm holding that second 6 input until Jacky lands on the ground, and then I press P while still holding 6).

Remember to mind the massive guard-stun and you will start punishing the kickflip like everything else.

Now, about them tiers...

 

Flipkick - srk of VF.