Anyone know why Eileen is supposedly good?

forgive me for the noob question but what does it mean to 'turtle'

 

It means playing very defensivley by backing away and letting your oppoenent come to you. When you get the chance you land a few pokes, then you back away some more.

 

It is an effective style, abet very annoying to fight against.

 

Eileen has a lot of stuff that can lead to big damage that is also safe on block.

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/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on CH.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

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/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif CH

And also stuff you rarely see like...

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Of course, they're not exactly safe if you try to keep attacking after being blocked, so you really need to know your defensive options, and your opponent's offensive options.

She doesn't really have anything that's great for guaranteed punishment compared to most of the other characters (after, say, blocking a sweep)and her style requires you to be close to the opponent as much as possible. This means that if you're learning the game you're going to run into your opponent's moves a lot and you'll also constantly be in range of most of their best stuff.

But if your defense and mindgames are on point (and, more specifically, if your OPPONENT is good on defense) then Eileen becomes a powerhouse.

 

????

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

 

Okay, it seems most sweeps are at -18 and not -15 like I thought. (-15 or so is for a lot of low attacks which are not sweeps.)

Anyway, I still don't think her punishment options are the best, but they lead into pressure. This can yield a huge reward, but nothing is guaranteed.

 

from what I know of that move it's not safe on block and your opponent has to do something really dumb or you have to be totally in their head for that move to hit easily.

 

^truth

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is pretty excellent after blocking a sweep.

 

You can punish pretty much every sweep (or any other -17 or worse move) in the game with it. Which was the thing that was discussed.

I don't think Eileen's punishment is anywhere near being bad.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif at +10
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif at +14 (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and followups for crouching opponents)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif at +17

You can also use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif at +15 which gives slightly more damage then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif but no knockdown.

All in all, she has punishers for all common situations and the damage isn't bad either.

 

STL: From 9K+G I prefer using 6P+KP,236P+KK, P2P, 236P+K (mixup) this works for both lights and mids afaik.

Jeneric: After her P+K as punishment I'd rather followup with PPP or P3P to get access to wari mixups, but that's probably just me.

 

Freyja that combo works on lightweights, Lion, Kage and Goh. (68 dmg)

The 9K+G > PP > 236KKK (61 dmg) works on lightweights, Blaze, Goh, Lion, Shun, Jacky and closed stance for Brad, Lau, Lei and Blaze.

I'm just lazy and go with the combo that works on more stances/weights. Max damage be damned!

 

You should use 9K+G if you expect a throw, and you can use it somewhat as reverse nitaku. It's also useful against people using reversals or sabakis. It's not a useless move that will only land if your opponent is a noob.

Eileen probably has some of the most damaging punishment tools. Especially 4PPK, which can be used very often.

 

So you could use 9K+G as reverse nitaku when you think you're about to be thrown? It appears my eileen punishment leaves much to be desired.

 

Cause it's a jumping attack, it does not clash with throws. This is explained in alot of past documents.

 

I must've missed it. I just always thought the time it took for her to get off the ground was too long so the you'd just get a throw clash. Good to hear I was wrong about that.

 

Well, actually, that might happen too if you are just way behind in frames.

 

seeing that the move takes 17 frames, I don't know how many of these frames are on the ground, and throws are 12 frames how many frames behind do you need to be to get thrown before you leave the ground? Since if you're using it for reverse nitaku you're going to be at a disadvantaged situation.

 

test it out in dojo mode.

 

good idea I'll let you know what I find

 

I guess 9k+g is better than 9p lol (WAAAY FASTER). I would use 9p for reverse nitaku situations, but very sparingly.

I'll try 9k+g more now, thanks for the info