Advanced Techniques

A lot of people know through association. That is, some people study the frame data for commonly used moves. Some people break the movelists down into logical groups.

You might try to list out "moves I can counter with move X, guaranteed." Or you might also try "moves that are perfect for my fuzzy guard timing."

It's a bit of work, but you'll be surprised how many moves you can remember doing this all for.

Also, if there are situations you know for sure you can fuzzy guard. Maybe after Akira's PK (as in the Guard Exercise #4 I think in Evo Challenge mode), then you skim the movelists for other things that have the same advantage on hit as PK. Gotta love pooling all the information through association ^_^ "Move X is like Akira's PK!"

-Chanchai

 

I know you can do that bt you can tposssibly remember every fram that way........in most situations when i have the advvantage i just go for my safest attacks.

 

You don't remember every frame (although that is the eventual goal). You just do what you can. I play VS Jacky 90% of the time so I'm well versed in dealing with him and have an easier time with his 6P nonsense than someone who rarely plays against him because I know the exact frames of it all.

Now put me against Vanessa and I'm completely clueless and would find it very difficult to compete against a good player.

That said, you can just remember basic rules of the game to help get you started off.

ie, you can fuzzy if your elbow is blocked
you can fuzzy if you get normal hit by an elbow
you can't fuzzy if you get your launcher blocked

It's more complex than this and there are exceptions of course but this is a good thing to do against characters you don't know or if you're just not good at remembering specific frame data, but you should try and at least learn when you can fuzzy from your own character's moveslist and then try and do the same with your primary opponent's. This will help keep you safer and let you maximise your options so you don't have to "go for my safest attacks" on advantage, like Ping at +6 or something when you could do something much better.

And like Chanchai said, once you get used to certain situations you can just look for moves that have equal frame advantage/disadvantage and you'll already know your preferred techniques for the situation.

 

We've got a Marvel vs Capcom champ, a DOA champ, and now a Smash Brothers champ all trying their hand at VF. It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top. A Tekken champ has already tried VF--he turned out pretty good (and ended up liking VF more?), though he's still far from being a VF champ on a global basis.

 

Are there any non-Japan based VF champs on a global basis though?

As far as I know, the only person who plays in Japan at a high level is Shou and I don't think he's ever made it to the finals in KS.

It's incredibly difficult to compete on a "global level" when the best competition in the world really only resides in one country. Japan just has too much of an advantage in VF, both with respect to practice and information.

 

If by "champs" you're referring to actual winners of official tournaments then which tournaments do you mean? Japanese or Western (i.e. USA/Europe)?

If you're talking about players who have traveled and played in tournaments anywhere, then for the UK there is Ryan Hart, who has placed highly in most Evo tournies in the US (and played some of the best Japanese players) as has VFDC's own Myke amongst a whole host of other names you'll see around VFDC (I'm sure you could look up past VF Evo tournies (and others) and see names cropping up from here).

 

It's far from impossible. After a while you just learn which move is what. You don't even need to study the frames intensely, just keep playing, if you're unsure about a move, ask your opponent or check it up. Eventually it will all pretty much stick.

Just because you're good or even the best at Smash Bros doesn't mean you'll automatically be the best at VF.

And you said previously Smash had 50.000 players worldwide. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of VF players in Japan alone would be higher.

I like your spirit though /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Ahh, cool. Glad you feel the VFDC love. I find the people here are all top-notch in one way or another. Anyway, if you've got the time tonight, come play some VF5.

 

What about comparing the time that the two games have been out...Smash since 99, VF since 93. I would think that 14 years of playing a game, following it's evolution, might be a little too much to overcome in a short time of "cramming". I remember the first time I played Smash, beign frustrated that my 3d fighting skills did not translate well to the game engine.

Judging by your success Ken, it's obvious that you have raw talent, and I, personally, would like to see if your Smash conditioning might interfere with your VF training, or if a player today just can't hope to catch up to 14 years of evolution.

 

I don't just play smash, I play other games too, just not competitively that much. None of them have appealed to me for a competitive scene. I just decided to try VF out. And about the raw talent part...

It's not that hard to be good at video games. There are things that matter like reflexes, hand eye coordination...but more importantly its all about intelligence. If your smart, your good. Intelligence leads to other things like improvisation, creativity and originality. Both of which are crucial to surviving in a competitive environment.

 

I agree, and am also curious if you are superstitious at all. Do you carry a real Falcon feather to tournaments to give you that added edge? Any gold coins minted to resemble those in the coin battle?

Seriously, though, are you not going to worry about this new VF dedication interfering with Brawl? Do you plan to go back, once Brawl comes out?

 

Well, here's the thing. I am not dedicated to VF. I am gonna try it out, see if I like it, feel comfortable with it, and check out the competitive fighting scene. So far, everyone on these forums have been really helpful and have a good attitude, so I already like the community.

But smash, I love smash and probably won't stop playing brawl when it comes out. I already know everyone from the smash community, and if it's anything like Melee, I'll probably stick with Brawl. I just love it's uniqueness, but also everyone in smash also knows who I am, and already know I'm one of the best...I'd like to prove myself in another game. I like the excitement of people not knowing your style or how you play. It's fun for me.

 

Part of the reason Japan has the best players is that they just play more than we do. More importantly, they play more with people than we can possibly do here in the US and any place outside of Japan.

VF has such a small scene outside of Japan that the serious players practically know each other =P . Here in NYC we actually have a pretty big scene in VF, about 10 - 15 regulars meeting up every Friday =P. Yup, 10 - 15 people who show up weekly to meet and play VF is considered big outside of Japan.

 

So fuzzy guarding is ducking then guard? Just watched Strider's youtube tutorial....

 

Fuzzy guard is basically that. However it changes depending on weither you are at -6 disadvantage or -7. Because you have to crouch dash canceling to get it to work.

It's a basic and strong defensive option and in VF5 is hard to beat.

lol, looking back, Alex Valle, Justin Wong, Buktooth, and so many players are picking up VF5, I think we should be happy. People are playing our game. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

@Ken- not to undermine your achievements but the majority of Japans talent pool is in the Arcades, I'm suprised Japan is even good at Smash considering how unpopular console is as a format for competition in Japan. Virtua Fighter Japanese Players are a completely different story from Smash Japanese players. Japan's GAME is Virtua Fighter, and until recently it was undisputed that VF was the most popular fighter in japan. Virtua Fighter is to Japan as Starcraft is to Korea.

 

Justin Wong playing VF at Evo will be interesting.

@ken

I think the fact that you've won tournaments is a big deal tbh because being able to deal with the pressure of the situation and win is a gift in itself irrespective of the context.

I can also see how VF can seem like there is less scope for creativity because of a strict mathematically regimented environment, but I think the fact that the developers have chosen to present the player with such an overwhelmingly large amount of options, his choices end up being unique and incredibly personal.

 

YEah this is what i said in the first earlier post


also i find it easier to learn frames relative to each other

 

Ken: I hope you can stick to VF5 even if you think the competitive scene is not as big as you think. We just Need to get every single players we can get outside of japan to make the scene stronger and bigger.

Jacky is more technical to use in VF5 than VF4. You will need some time to get used to the changes. Or you can try Lau, more straight forward in VF5 for beginners to understand VF basics.

My tips for VF: Basic is King/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

P.S you got a joystick yet? Get the VSHG if you can, it's the best stick for VF5 at the moment

Cheers

 

If you guys know some secret technique, please share. I find it completely impossible to (forward) crouchdash under a throw at -7 (e.g. pai /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif), and very reliable to crouchdash under a throw at -6 (e.g. sidekick).