A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thread)

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Can you elaborate on the meaning of "doing dash in options"?
I can't seem to translate that into something that makes sense to me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Normal options:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

these dont work cause opponent can just run away from both

Dash in options:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

ie. dash in (thus wasting frames and giving up your so-called advantage) in order to get in range.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

I've outlined here strengths and shown most of the holes. Now if I were to outline every character's options in a given situation would be nice, but:

1. I don't have the time
2. I don't have "intimate" knowledge of all the characters
3. I'm probably not gonna receive help to reach that anyway

Do I need to state each and every from crouch punisher that you should use after ducking many of Vanessa's highs? Do I really need to state that if you yomi a MK/SK/KN sabaki, you should use a move that won't be deflected or just delay your original plan and just duck /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?

You talking about the sections? Or specific "options?"

No one in NorCal has it AFAIK; even Renzo asked if I had it.

This is a public thread, they can always step in.

But, as it must be said: the genre is based around "guessing games."

Now you're throwing in a new scenario;

Fact: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on MC is +4 (I'm gonna test whether or not a 13-14 frame elbow will beat it at the next gathering)
Fact: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a total of 18 frames
Fact: In comparison to it successfully sabaki'ing an attack, it rarely connects on MC anyway unless the opponent randomly throws out big attacks
Fact: You should be glad the

Fact: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is -8 on block, and clashes throw
Fact: The damage ratio of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif versus many mids is 18:50-100+ (with knockdown)

I missed-typed on several occasions, but I guess it's just completely impossible to apply a guessing game because a Vanessa player will always beat it...

It's fucking broken.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

You dont need to apply guessing game because you already know what the Vanessa player is going to do, right?

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

lol

----edit----

lol lol lol

----again with an edit----

lol lol lol lol lol

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Knees flow like water from jeffry in deathmatches. Have you ever used* jeff, sebo? Ever gotten an MC knee "randomly"? Ever had that random knee blocked later?

XBL connections from VA to TX are less than perfect and might (just might) invite or necessitate play that isn't representative of a players style or approach to the game. Do you play online sebo?

Do you understand that in an argument about Vanessa's awesome /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif you aren't going to further your cause by picking Jeff and using his awesome /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ?

Vanessa is a wicked character who is capable of being used obnoxiously in the wrong hands. Such can be said of any in the cast, but with the expansiveness of Vanessa's movelist, isn't it a shame that all you see from some of her users is maybe 6 moves and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif ?

*used means played against people. Considering your deep knowledge of his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif +/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif threat stance entry in evo, I'd say you've easily spent more time on the vfdc movelist than you ever have on the stick.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

You can't be serious... hahaha.

No, I play real VF offline.

???

And <s>fucking stupid</s> dumb players fall for that stuff.

It's why I'm working on this thread.

In evo it was /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif...

Yeah, I never played Srider, Ice-9, Renzo, Raoul, Ktallguy, Plague, Sweeptheleg, Solfizz, Allworld, Unsafe_Dan, L_A_Akira, Steph, HowBoutSum, PheonixDTH, Brisal, Pushku, Shoobert, Haunts, 001, DubC, Scamp, Sin#, RocketPai, Chanchai, Shiznittles, Jeremy, Ryan, and Mike just to name a few.

I don't even own a stick, and I sure as hell didn't drive over 1000 miles over the last summer to play the game.

Shit you got me down; you got me good.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Jeneric, thanks for the useful tips.

Sebo, thanks for the string analysis, please keep it up. Like I said, its much better than the discussion of "hot topics" that you're losing your head over.

C'mon, this isnt about ego, this is about math:

( 18f - 4f of advantage ) == 14f
18 dmg > 17 dmg

If you don't believe me,

http://blip.tv/file/814867/

Note that, usefully,

18 dmg < 20 dmg.

i.e., dont use an elbow, use short knee, or doublepalm, or flipkick, or . . .

As for the "this is irrelevant b/c it will never work in high level tournament play" or "that move will rarely hit as MC" arguments . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1XttEXe2s

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This is SBO, inarguably a high level tourney. Myke and Nin each lose a round by eating 3-4 DS elbows in a row. Myke and Nin are inarguably better players than 95% of the members on this site, including me and sebo. If it can happen to them, it can happen to anyone reading this ( I'll leave it to the viewer to decide how useful /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and backwalk are in tournament play ).

If you cant see the yellow flash b/c of the shitty video quality, about half of the hits vs Nin are MC. If you abare with a low move (several chars have slower low moves as their main reverse nitaku), you're going to get MC'ed by 1P. Don't tell people that DS elbow loses to an elbow, because it doesn't always.

Fix your post. If you don't want feedback, don't ask for it.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

With the string analysis, in DS, there is a definite answer to each of them.

But she also has a lot a single strings that are safe on block, like most other characters. I can't give straight answer in how to beat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif because:

You said it best. A Vanessa player can beat any option if they guess right; but you take for granted the possibility of you out guessing her.

As a result nothing I could ever write will ever please you, because there isn't one move that beats all options. Nothing in this game is guaranteed, with one exception: PUNISHMENT (and that's why I stress is above almost everything else).

What does this digging up have to do with anything? Well, their isn't a definite answer to dealing with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/(or whatever Vanessa move here), just like Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, etc. What brings success after X hit/block is out guess what the opponent will do. So if the info beyond the strings seems scant, I'll need to expand in the near future, but let's examine one example of what I think is a fine enough of a job:

From this I get that this is Vanessa's knee class launcher, being Jeffry players, we can infer that this is her means of big damage; and this is true.

I also see it is a high, and being a knee class attack= 17 frames. What does this mean?

So in situations where you're at -5 or greater, risking /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or a low sweep that puts you in crouch (or even just ducking) might be worth it. Of course she could always /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif... but you could also beat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

You know... that pair of words I keep saying: guessing game.

You're right and I'm wrong on this one.

I guess this is where I got my misconception from as with my Jeffry: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is my elbow.

Watch the vid again. <span style='font-size: 8pt'>(srsly)</span>

What rank is the Vanessa? I can't read Kanji at that resolution.

(will put lengthy response here tomorrow)

I think it'd be appropriate to see what Myke has to say about that match as well.

Will do, I was wrong in assuming that elbows would eat it a -4... but when /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is done at even and disadvantage (which was my original point) mids kill it.

I guess the moral of the story isn't to blindly attack after getting MC'ed by it, and seeing what Vanessa does after that.

Of course you want something that is a 100% guaranteed.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ??? </div></div>

Okay, maybe you couldn't follow me.

Why'd you post the vid, Sebo?

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Well, both Akiras DE and SDE are 20 damage... Not to mention all other moves at his disposal like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for combo etc. One more notch on the "characters are not equal" notebook I guess.

First move that I would try with Kage is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, but the situation does look kind of dim for Kage compared. He can do things like dragon punch but they are much higher risk I think. Which characters are worst off against this and can we look at their options?

I think its pretty important to point out here now that not all elbows beat her 1P spam. Well, whenever opponent is spamming some move like this you can always evade.

ps. As long as we recognize that there are no foolproof win tactics (like I sometimes seem to hear, hence the sarcastic responses sometimes) we should just keep on analyzing each situation and option individually. That benefits those many budding VF players reading these forums and struggling with this stuff in their local scene (or online) and convincing non-VF players who read these forums and VF is still VF and its not broken. Over and out. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

re: what akira / kage should do: when 1P hits, it forces crouch. That's why I mentioned that doublepalm works well to stop another one, no CD buffering necessary (yes I tested this). By the same token, kage's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif should work fine (havent tested, but I believe it). Dragonpunch is too slow. For this same reason, characters like Pai that have /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif moves can't use their elbow (even if it did do enough damage, which it doesnt).

re: "guessing game." VF is not just about repeated guessing games. It's also about limiting the options of the person at disadvantage. When the person at supposed disadvantage can beat 4/5 of your options with 1 simple movement, and the other 4/5 of your options with a slightly different simple movement, it looks a little off. . .

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Yup yup, but what were we talking about again? Vanessa 1P hits with major counter? or normal hit? Check again who has advantage in that case and what was the complaint again?


ps. There is a Finnish proverb about people who are unable to "see the forest because the trees are in the way"

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what were we talking about again?</div></div>

Sebo's repeated "its a guessing game, duh" comments are in regards to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, which is what I'm talking about when I say that beating 4/5 of options by walking back or backdash evade is, at least, a little off kilter. It should be addressed as such, instead of misleading people into thinking its a normal "throw-beats-evade" kind of situation.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Sebo's repeated "its a guessing game, duh" comments are in regards to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, which is what I'm talking about when I say that beating 4/5 of options by walking back or backdash evade is, at least, a little off kilter. It should be addressed as such, instead of misleading people into thinking its a normal "throw-beats-evade" kind of situation.
</div></div>

Yeah... everything is beaten. I mean Vanessa, players always guess correctly.

And why did you edit that post? I remember before leaving it said something to the affect of, "It isn't just about a guessing game but limiting the options of the opponent" or something redundant like that. I was gonna have fun with that.
----

It's just the same self-fulfilling prophecy and defeatist mentality.

This very same issue can also branched to the "argument" (there is none) on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif; because after all, if it MCs (a brand new scenario added only by someone who has nothing else to go on) your only option it to attack, much like eating multiple /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs.

Watch your evidence, Nin would've eaten a lot of shit (not just /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif based on the fact he kept trying to attack at -4 as opposed to evading, guarding, reversing, using a sabaki or inashi. Shit, he was lucky Vanessa didn't throw out /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif or even /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif for that matter.

Granted, there is a lot of nerves involved, but you take for granted the fact that the Vanessa player was skillful enough out guess the opponent almost every time: look at the usage of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (an attack outlined in this guide), or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (twice in a row!), etc.

But again, the only option after getting MCed by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is to keep attacking. Good show.

Okay, maybe you couldn't follow me.

Why'd you post the vid, Sebo?
</div></div>

I found the phraseology to be awkward at best.

Reread the sentence it is in, it illustrates the point made in the sentence. It was just convenient that the person in the video is also the person making a fuss over some stupid stuff.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

I didn't edit my post, look at #202115

You still haven't fixed your post about 1P. And I'm not the one advocating attacking to beat repeated 1P ( "guard or evade" is what I said ), I'm the one pointing out that if you are going to attack, elbow is not the best way to do it.

About /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, at least fix your post so that it accurately describes the situation: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif and/or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif beat throw, lowthrow and frame-appropriate mids, so ETEG and fuzzy is largely irrelevant except against characters with extra throw range or fast jabs.

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reread </div></div>

I read it fine the first time. Why don't you reread your sentence...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Fact: In comparison to it successfully sabaki'ing an attack, it rarely connects on MC anyway unless the opponent randomly throws out big attacks.</div></div>

...then go back and watch the vid. There are no MC /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif's on jeff's knee. No sabaki /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif's where ther could have been several. No attempted /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif's at all...just some bad knee guesses in a 3-0 Vane v Jeff vid from some online player match which you "conveniently" produced to denigrate KoD's Jeffry. It was a dick move and you persist in asserting it was germane to the discussion. Whatever.

On the threat stance thing...maybe you should go back and amend your post which says:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't need VF5 to practice Threat usage. Evo is fine enough.

P6P and 4P+K lead to threat.
</div></div>

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Last I checked there wasn't anything peculiar with a 18 frame mid beating a 14 frame mid when done at +4 advantage.

The original point is that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif isn't that great of a MC move and if you've eaten that you should be happy that your abare tactics didn't make you eat something that would've done much, much more damage.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is primarily good (GREAT!) as a sabaki or tech crouch move. Succesful sabaki = normal hit which gives +2 advantage. An elbow will beat another /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif attempt from there.

Btw, as I wrote earlier, half circular attacks will beat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif cleanly (meaning Jeff can take almost half of the lifebar if Vanessa goes the "wrong" direction /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ). Most jabs and elbows will hit a Vanessa backwalking out of a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif at point blank range. A Vanessa could of course stop and block, but wouldn't take her that far and it's difficult to see it coming (how many her can duck jabs on reaction? Pretty much the same thing).

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

lol @KoD not advocating how great multiple 1p's are in a row or whining about not being able to attack out of a +4 situation all of a sudden. I like the new pointing out stance - cute stuff.

Speaking of updating / fixing posts; you haven't done anything in your http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/198993/fpart/1
in 20+ days right KoD? Did you give a shit about what people said in your thread?

Edit: Oh and yeah, before you go on a rampage with the first thing I wrote...

Maybe it's just me but I find it annoying KoD how you seem to talk for unknown "people" all the time. You don't have a problem with DS 1p (no sir!) multiple uses, "people" do. Don't make me need to get out old quotes cause it's bothersome. For someone who doesn't have problem with DS 1p you sure as hell aren't painting a pretty picture of the move. Right?

Why is it such a problem letting these so called people you represent speak for themselves? You keep voicing the opinion of others - something you really shouldn't do. Just stop doing it. What's funny is that, when the presented opinion (which, mind you, isn't your own), is criticized,.. you fight with claws for it. I'll let the thread readers interpret that how they want. <span style='font-size: 8pt'>(note the pun on your video backwalk comment)</span>.

It's annoying hiding behind other players. It makes for shitty conversation and even shittier argumentation. You did it with Shou and his clip. You put great merit into that clip, if you say you didn't you're flat out lying.

The underlying context is/was "He's a topplayer, he agrees with me." "Look it does happen to better players, this is common". This, unspoken, sentiment is repeated here in a new clip. When things got around it turned out that Shou didn't agree with you at all did he? He said he had no problem beating people who played that way now - the actual quote is posted elsewhere.

Now you're doing the same, you're voicing the opinion of Myke and Nin (both who are active on this site I might add) to give some sort of weight to your words. Truth be told you don't know shit of the players feeling of that match right now and/or how they would look upon it. You probably wouldn't even understand their trail of thought either. I doubt you have enough understanding of a matchup like Kage vs Vanessa to even start to do an analysis to be honest. Nin and Myke aren't handicapped; if they wanted to post something of this sort on their own they could. If they had great problems with 1p they can say so on their own. Nobody needs you as a shining knight in armor to bring forward universal problems from "people".

 

Re: A critical look at Vanessa (X VS. Vanessa thre

Jeneric, i generally agree with your points . . .

RE: nothing strange about +4 advantage situation.
Nope, there sure isn't. Only thing strange to me is sebos reaction to simple math.

RE: you should be happy she didn't do something bigger.
From my point of view, against fast jab characters, 1P is actually vanessa's moral option ("make them block") in that situation, because she can't use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

RE: half circular attacks
Wrong direction . . . yeah, I would love it if people always dodged towards jeff's back, but i'm not going to advocate relying on it. That being said, you're effectively advocating a mixup between /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif at +5. This alone should raise a flag as to how strange of a situation /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is on block.

Kiwe, thanks for calmly and rationally bringing some more facts to the table . . . oh wait.

RE: fixing my posts
If you see anything incorrect, or even misleading, in that backwalk thread, let me know and I'll correct it. As to why it hasnt been updated, anyone who knows me knows that I've been spending the past few weeks working my ass off to get projects finished so I could go to socal, then playing vf at socal, then recovering from loss of sleep.

RE: speaking for "people"
I don't like incorrect information. Some people (sorry, I really dont remember who) were actually asking on shoutbox how to stop repeated 1P. Sebo's answer of "elbow eats it for breakfast" is at best incomplete. This is as irresponsible as if I were to go write in the jeff wiki: "If jeff is doing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif on you, just elbow him". If someone pointed out an error like that to me, I'd want to go fix it, not start telling people to stop talking trash about my character.

RE: hiding behind "top players"
I don't particularly care about Shou and his top sekrit techniques, and I certainly wasn't the one who posted his video. To my mind, it isnt evidence of anything other than catch throw has some advantages against backwalking.
As for myke and nin (they post here? really?), in case it wasn't clear, I have nothing but respect for them, and the information they provide is generally correct and useful. I posted that video because its evidence that repeated 1P really can hit in high level play, end of story.