A Brutal Aoi, or Cerbral Aoi?

when I say , then + for a crumple. The delay after the sometimes tricks people into doing a rising or a low punch for an interrupt when nothing comes after the punch string. I know even if you hit a crouched opponent with the + there is no crumble unless it's a counter. It's just something to trick players, like doing the +++ afterwards. Sorry if I confused anyone. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

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is still in Evo, but it doesn't crumble. I think it staggers a bit on counter, but that's it. The new crumbling attack is a bit slower, as I"m sure you know. Don't worry -- it doesn't take long to get used to, so keep practicing.

One thing they've definitely added to her game is YY Offensive. or both crumble on (I think) minor counter, and when someone tries to throw you and they miss. Very good.

Practice +++ as the throw is guaranteed on counter in Evo -- that'll get you ready.

DON'T practice -- totally gone.

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ok.... doesn't crumble anymore, is gone, these are probably a few of her useful moves, and they've taken them away /versus/images/icons/frown.gif , kinda sounds like she's been toned down, which i think is unneccesary,

anyways (crumble on minor counter) from YY stance, sounds good and adds another variety to her YY evade follow ups, and off course + (counter) low throw sounds good as well, at one point compensates for the weakened . hopefully she hasn't loss her edge that much, and doesn't she have new throws? oh well, it might not be too much of a change.

 

+ does what used to, just takes longer. Nice to throw in after a or something. YY or YY are a single chop after the evade, which come in quite handy... especially for someon rushing to throw you. YOu can also come out puncing and swinging.

being gone does suck, but is nice (not to be confused with ), and gives a nice advantage on counter (like ). is also gone.

+ is mid-high. Very nice. Floats, but there's no follow up w/o a wall, unfortunately.
+ is a sabaki stab. Pretty quick, but apparantly only sabaki's mid punches. Great for Lau & Jacky. Not so good w/ Wolf or Akira, but you can now reverse all their moves.

Overall, she's been WELL bumped up. Non-Aoi players are pretty pissed.

If you use Wolf....well...then you've got a lot to bitch about, as he's been very watered down... I'd say he's been brought down to normal though.

 

I think Its all about the setup. Setting up your opponent for the throw or setting it up so to read his moves to counter. Plus I also think it also comes down to your own personality, how do you want to play her, and don't forget about the cancel moves she has, though it only really works on human vs human situations. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

 

I play a very counter heavy Aoi. I play in a way to set up the other person to do certain moves. Mostly mids and low punches. I use force crouches to set these up. To discourage side stepping I use her sweep, which in turn promotes low punching. Countering rising attacks is a big part of my game. 50% chance of guessing right and if you can do the catch throw it's a free 55 dmg.

The 3 cancels I use most often are the sweep cancel, the cancel and the cancel. More often than not if I do the cancel or the + cancel, I get smacked b/c it's so obvious.

I would recommend using those moves that are relatively unused. Her +, for example. If the is blocked you are at full advantage to throw or attack. It's a 50% chance according to what your opponent does to counter, low punch out of the throw or sidestep your attack, but it just adds more to her mind game.

whew, I wrote more than I expected /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

KK being gone seems pretty bad to me, but then that's a move
that gets used a lot when you're new with Aoi and in trouble.

It looks like on the vids I've seen that back-d/f P gets blocked
a lot, but perhaps that's why it's been spoken of in conjunction with
PPP strings. Also, I guess that the move does not leave Aoi in a bad
position, since she's executing low and back slightly.

I probably need to attack more with Aoi, make her a hitter
to get to throwing (as well as remembering the down-P+K+G throw),
because I'm trying too hard to reverse, and I just don't know
the attack levels and have bad timing besides...if you mess up a
reverse you're blasted badly, but frig I want to be able to
break those goddamned Jackys. Anybody notice CPU Pai is a major
pain in the ass when you're playing as Aoi or Lei? I never had
trouble with Pai until using them...makes it hard to train
against her when I'm flying through the air.

 

Lau_Fister: (Hehehe)

Yeah, losing the does suck a bit, but the additions are more than welcome. Even in version C, I didn't use as much as most, mainly b/c it was generally blocked or dodged, and throw counterable. I only did it sporadically, when it couldn't be read, or SOMETIMES after a G-cancel, but only after I had done about 3-4 G-cancel -> throws beforehand. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

CPU Pai is a bitch, yes. Wait until you see the Evo CPU -- it's a nightmare.

 

Lau_fister. Ouch.

I would just think back-back P+K would work just as well as
that stomach-crumble double-palm thing. Still, I'm talking out of
my ass, since I still haven't gotten a chance to download videos.

By the way, I never hear much about the d/f P, lift-off on MC? I
rarely hear it mentioned, and when I try it in a match it leaves me in
bad. I'm wondering how useful this is? Works beautifully in training
mode, of course. Is it just too slow and lacking priority in reality?

 

b,b+p+k is good, but it sure isn't b,d/f+p.

b,b+p+k
hits high
H punch reversible
slower to hit than b,d/f+p
throw and hit counterable on block, and very easily, too
cannot follow with low throw
guard cancelable
sobers
seems to avoid certain attacks? (as she steps back a bit in execution)

b,d/f+p
hits special mid
cannot be reversed (double hand)
just a few frames slower than a d+p
throw counterable on block only (I think)
can follow with low throw
needs a MC
does not sober
seems to avoid certain high attacks? (as she ducks in execution)

So as you can see, the guard canceling and the lack of need of a MC is nice, but generally speaking, I think most would take the b,d/f+p over the b,b+p+k anyday. We're talking Ver C, here of course.

 

I probably need to attack more with Aoi, make her a hitter
to get to throwing (as well as remembering the down-P+K+G throw)

I think this is your best bet. Aoi doesn't have the strongest attacks or floaters, but it's a good idea to at least get a flowchart going. Simple attacks like or + can lead to other options. For example, mixing up + followups (+, /+, /+->+, etc.) and using delays in your attack series can keep the opponent off balance, which works in Aoi's favor.

because I'm trying too hard to reverse, and I just don't know
the attack levels and have bad timing besides...

Try reversals when you have an idea of what your opponent will attack with, and which attack level will be used (high, mid, low). If you don't know the attack levels, or lose initiative, use the inashi (+++). As was posted before, it's safer because it deflects any high or mid single limbed attack. So you don't have to guess as much. And in some cases it shifts initiative to your side, so it's good for getting Aoi out of a bad situation. I really think it's a bad idea to try and reverse everything that comes your way, because you become too passive, in my opinion. And the risk of being thrown or floated is just not worth the 30-40 pts of damage, especially when you can do more if you were more aggressive.

Oh yeah, it's reversals...not counters. Reversals grab the attack and inflict damage. Counters are attacks that hit the opponent during the execution or recovery of his/her attack. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif It's a little pet peeve of mine.

 

I play PS2 VF4... I like reversals and throws the best. Only about 75% of my damage is from striking attacks. I don't like the Tenchi In'you stance because it leaves you open to low attacks, and spinning attacks. My major non-computer opponent plays Jacky, and I find it easier to read his moves now. Basically, my suggestion would be to play cerebrally to maximize your brutality. If you know what they're going to do, reverse instead of parrying. If you don't, guard, or evade. If you get a guaranteed throw move, use those big damage throws!

 

<font color="ff3366"> If you know what they're going to do, reverse instead of parrying.</font color>

If you read my post again, you'll see that I posted that. I suggested that lau_fists use the inashi because he:

1) had a problem reading high and mid attacks, and
2) it is a way (not the only way) of regaining initiative.

In lau_fist's case, if the player is uncertain which attack the opponent will respond with (high or mid), an option would be to inashi the attack, because the inashi deflects any high and mid single limb attack.

 

since the topics been open again, here's where a reversal is most useful, and that is in a middle of a series (for example: Lau's ) although it will require some fast execution, and a fair amount of hand - eye coordination.

 

Actually, I don't think the YY inashis crecent attacks. Either that, or the the slow execution of those things are messing up my timing. It's a pain against Jacky/Lau. But yeah, the option select nature of YY rocks.

 

well i was talking about just reversal, not the YY inashi, and i'm not quite sure but most crescent kicks i haven't been able to inashi, although for Lau/Jacky who has linear series you do have a revesal or YY inashi option which is one great advantage of using Aoi, in any case as i said before the best times for a reversal is in the middle of a series, such as Lau's oh yeah and Leifei's (i think it the one where he punches you 4 times hitting mid all the way). /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

Sorry, my reply was meant for ghostdog. I hit the wrong reply button. Sillee mee.

 

oh ok, well here's one thing i picked up a few days ago playing my friends, Aoi's multi throws, specifically +++ (this throw only), can be followed up with +, from all the test i did with it, its guaranteed if the multi - throw are not escaped, but take note that you have to do this quickly coz like Aoi's stomach crumble ~ Throw, a split second and it won't connect, on further note, i think this would only be an option in ver C. cos + throw in Evo from GP's info is now throw escapable.

 

From what I know, you can only enter or to escape the throw combos in Evo. Not sure about Ver. C., as I started using Aoi pretty late in the game. On that note, I always go for ++. The variant promises more damage, so most people try to escape that one first.

Now as for reversals -- with the exception of long combos that aren't particularly fast (like Lei Fei's which isn't in EVO, btw), charge attacks, and attacks that are executed from far away (Sen Shippo) it's really a guessing game -- you need to know what's going to happen, and you need to know your opponent. With Lau & Jacky, I almost always reverse mid, and when I want to play it safe, I inashi it. With Akira (in Evo only) I throw mid reversals all over the place.

 

I keep thinking I have to reverse Lau high rather than mid, because of the punch strings...does the mid-reversal stop the elbows?

Also, what's Aoi's best option against Lei Fei's DM stance? Besides the sweep? For some reason I freeze against it because of the fast jab and the +.

 

But in order to reverse Lau's or Lei's IN , you can't have gotten hit by the first two, be struggling to block the rest, and reverse at the same time right? Isn't the only way to reverse in the middle of a series is if you've blocked the first hit?

I bring this up because I try to reverse Lau's high punches in mid-stream after first contact and only end up eating the crescent at the end. That punching bastard can just keep bringing it, and sweeping, and elbowing...I'm having a hard time dealing with Lau's power rush and reversing before being destroyed. I've learned to block better and inashi when using Aoi, but the reverses are where it's at against Lau and I'm trying to figure out how to time them.

Talk about a pain in the ass...all Lion's kicks seem circular and low, and the YY seems useless against Lion's bizarre angles. I'm afraid to even try to reverse Lion for fear of the juggle, and I would think the low throw or ++ is made for him, but I can't hit it. Any reversal suggestions for Lion?