5 Steps to Learning Virtua Fighter

@Chanchai

Thank You!

 

My pleasure, always happy to help! Feel free to ask more questions here in the forums or send me a DM too!

 

Blocking and throws are two things I still have issues with in the game (in terms of me not getting them)

I feel I'm way too dependent on the guard button which leads to good players reading and throwing a lot. I can't time the tech for the life of me. Yeah, I know, the answer is get faster but it is one of my bigger flaws at the moment.

Also, when to actually use throws still gets me. I know throws are the fastest moves in the game at 10 frames, but I don't know if its just me not timing it right or trying to throw 'em out at times when I don't have enough frames on block to do so. Say I guard a string...I try to throw on perfect guard but usually find myself getting jabbed or low jabbed stopping the throw.

Again, maybe it's just my timing...maybe it is just me but I'm struggling to wrap my head around throws in general and when to use them effectively.

 

You are not alone, this is a barrier for many people (including intermediate!) but we are here to help!

Throws:
WHAT ATTACK BEATS THROWS REALLY MEANS
Throws are really fast (10 frames!), but let's go back to the statement you've heard many times before--ATTACKS BEAT THROW.

What this statement really means is that if you are doing a throw and somehow on the 9th frame of the execution of that throw your opponent is in the first frame of their attack, THE ATTACK STILL WINS!

This is not meant to scare you from every throwing, but it means that you have to consider if your opponent will mash attack or respond to a throw attempt with an attack (extremely hard to do this intentionally as a reaction to the throw animation, it does not happen intentionally unless the opponent is mentally primed to do it already).

If the risk of your opponent mashing jabs is strong, you are not in a good position to throw unless it was a guaranteed throw situation. That said... I will later talk about throwing beyond guaranteed situations (I am making it clear that you will mostly throw when it is not guaranteed--I will tell you later about how to throw when it is super likely to work).

THROW RANGE IS TOUGH
The range of throws makes a lot of introductory and even intermediate players insecure about throwing. Some moves have enough push back that if you block them, even if you are at +8 (big nitaku) throwing isn't an option because of the push back.

That said, a bad take away from this is a bad idea that "you can only throw after moves that leave you close together." While this is technically true if we limit our imagination, this will really limit when you can throw in VF.

You can still dash and throw. However... you may then be wondering if this is telegraphing all of your throw attempts...

As long as your opponent is not trying to attack you out of a dash in throw attempt, this should not be a problem. Sometimes, this requires that you condition your opponent to start defending in a dash in situation. An easy way to do that is to use a safe and fast poke (like elbow) from dash in situations like this. When you finally start seeing your opponent guarding or evading when you dash in, then you can start mixing in throws. It will take courage when you are not used to this, but with a lot of training you will get used to this.

THROWS KILL EVADE (Sidestep)
It is important to understand that throw is what you use to punish someone guarding (predictably). However, it is also important to understand that THROWS ALSO BEAT EVADE (In VF, we call Sidestep, "Evade").

If you see someone evading predictably, this is when you are supposed to throw them. Not after the evade--YOU THROW THEM THE SAME TIME AS THE EVADE!

Let me flip the perspective for a moment, IT IS REALLY HARD TO BREAK A THROW WHEN YOU ARE THROWN DURING AN EVADE ATTEMPT! The only way to break the throw is to have the throw escape inputted when you are thrown--there is no other way in this situation. You cannot attack to break the throw if you were thrown during an evade attempt. If the throw was done same time as your evade, you cannot even cancel your failed evade into a crouch dash to avoid the throw--you can only input a throw escape to save you in this situation.

PUTTING THIS TOGETHER:
The takeaway is that if you fight against people that mash, throwing is not the way. Save your throwing development for stronger opponents who respect the role of defense and use it.

If your opponent only spams with highs and mids, you would never try to crush low attacks by them. Similarly, if your opponent only spams attacks, you should not try to win with throw--unless you are throwing them from a whiff or a guaranteed throw on block situation--and even then you probably have stronger options.

The way to deal with people who attack spam is simply to create frame advantage and use it. You do this by defending (guard or evade) when you are at a disadvantage, and then using attacks that work with the advantage you have. Throwing is not meant to save you from these players.

However... you will eventually find opponents who either guard and evade too much, or guard and evade just about right.

Opponents who guard or evade too much should be thrown A LOT! Against these opponents you can still use advantage properly, but they are open to throw. These are the players who turtle too much or always evade after their 2P or elbow is blocked. Throw these guys. If they're just standing their still, get used to throwing them too!

Opponents who properly defend need to be thrown with similar precision. The stronger players are the ones who play with good options in each situation. These opponents are the strong ones and it is hard to throw them, but throwing is a good and big option against them but you have to learn when to do it.

Against the stronger opponents, throwing is an option when they like to evade and when they are afraid enough of your incoming attack to guard. You have to earn their respect, they have to be afraid of the attack, then they will lose to throw. If you can find a predictable evade habit (like after certain attacks of theirs gets guarded), that is your throw time!

A GREAT AND EASY SETUP AGAUINST DECENT AND STRONG OPPONENTS: 2P --> Throw
The more your opponent plays with proper sequencing--not mashing--the more likely certain options become strong for you. Against mashers, you get used to 2P (counter hit) --> launcher. Against more mindful opponents, 2P (especially if counter hit) --> Throw is something that will always be strong (but if it becomes predictable, you must switch to 2P --> Mid/launcher).

This is strong because a lot of people don't have the intention of losing a situation, so they might be in the middle of a decent string or a sequence when your 2P counter hits them and they are less able to respond to a throw attempt--especially if a bad situation like that encourages them to guard or evade!

2P --> Throw works at all elvels, even very high levels! But any good option has to be balanced out with alternative options--it becomes terrible if it is your only option you use in a situation. You must mix it up!

DO NOT LET NEGATIVITY BIAS SCARE YOU FROM GETTING BETTER WITH THROWS
So this point is really important. MOST PLAYERS ON AVERAGE DO NOT THROW ENOUGH IN VIRTUA FIGHTER. This makes sense at low level, but if you are better than masher level and your opponent is too, then throws become more valuable. With this level of play in mind, always remember the following!

* IF YOU WENT FOR A THROW AND YOUR OPPONENT DID A THROW ESCAPE, BE HAPPY! YOU DID A THROW IN THE CORRECT SITUATION! Your opponent escaped the throw so you have to determine if it was a fluke or if your throw pattern is predictable. But you should keep throwing in situations like this, where you did successfully throw the opponent. The Throw Escape should never discourage you from throwing!

* IF YOU WENT FOR A THROW AND YOUR OPPONENT ATTACKED YOU, BE CAREFUL! You should not throw against predictable attacks. But most importantly, you need to determine why you were hit out of a throw!

If you were hit out of a throw because the opponent is an attack masher, you should not have thrown in any situation you were hit.

If you were hit out of a throw because the opponent predicted your throw attempt, throw might not have been a wrong guess but you have to evaluate how predictable your throw attempts are. Sometimes it is just a fluke, your opponent just hit attack because of the pressure.

Sometimes your opponent just guessed properly against you and you were mixing up properly--then that is okay and you should not beat yourself up over it. But you can always learn from it and you can re-evaluate if you actually are predictable. But if they just guessed really well and you've been mixing up well much of the battle, then give props to your opponent!

 

In the last post I addressed throwing.

With Guarding, I think the challenge you are dealing with is being caught with Paper between Rocks and Scissors!

The weaker mashers are attacking you with Rocks so your Paper Guards are winning and it is why they became so strong in your development as a VF player.

But then you come across stronger players who attack you with Scissors!

There are a few things that will help you:
* Optimizing your flow and understanding that your opponent has a lot to do with your flow in a match. The beginners kept attacking you so blocking was the correct thing to do against them.

* The stronger players might be throwing you a lot or might be mixing it up a lot but have rendered your guard-based counter-attacks (the attacks you do after you block) less useful. So now you need to find more avenues of pressure against such opponents. And you must optimize your flow.

Taking Turns is not my favorite paradigm for Virtua Fighter, but I will use it because it is the most intuitive approach to Virtua Fighter and helps people advance beyond beginner level VF and get strong at Intermediate level VF.

When you fought weaker opponents, your Guard was a good way to fight. But against stronger opponents, it sounds like you might be taking your turns less and also--if your turns don't have some throws mixed in, then it means you are probably guarding and attacking too much without mixing up throws or alternative options.

I covered throw before so we won't talk about that much here except to say that if players are "taking turns" properly and no damage has been done in 10 seconds, usually this is because neither player is throwing.

It sounds like it is still too early to talk about Fuzzy Guard and other option selects. But Fuzzy Guard will become another dynamic after you improve your flow and also start mixing in more throws as well as mid attacks to properly win a situation where your opponent respected your turn and guarded.

So let's keep it simple on flow:

You do a defensive option after you fail to block (you got hit) or fail to attack (you got blocked)--THE DEFENSIVE OPTIONS INCLUDE:
* Guard (handles attack)
* Evade (handles linear and half-circular attacks)
* Attack (you think your opponent will try to throw you here--we call this ABARE)
* Sabaki Attacks/Reversals/Crush Attacks (highest risk options, but you do these if the opponent's attack option is too obvious)

Also, when you Guard you should always have a throw escape input held just as long as you would normally guard (no longer than that).

You do an offensive option after you successfully hit or block your opponent:
* Mid Attack (you think they will attack or crouch)
* Throw (you think they will guard or evade)

This sounds redundant, but if you feel like you are guarding too much, then it is because you are not taking the initiative when you have it. If you feel you are not guarding enough, it is because you're not using it enough as a defensive option when your opponent has the initiative.

Understanding "Taking Turns" and eventually "Stealing Turns" is a very big step in developing your VF game. The flow is mostly universal and your guarding will be more optimal when you play the flow better.

However... "Taking Turns" is not the only way to look at Virtua Fighter. Eventually this all is just situational awareness and those guidelines on options become detailed lists you have for different situations.

It's a fun road to mastery, this game ^_^

 

That was an amazing response.i learned alot.

Many thanks!

 

Thanks for the help, man.

I had no idea throws actually beat side steps. That's something new to me.

I'm currently at Lvl 21 Hunter...I made it briefly to Lvl 22 before being almost instantly demoted by a Lion player. Using Sarah for reference. I've played Sarah ever since VF2...I have played VF before but never against actual people. Beating the CPU is one thing but facing off against actual people is another.

I hold my own against lower players but higher ranks just demolish me. (and rightfully so I guess)

but yeah, thanks for the write up. I think in terms of guarding I'm used to Tekken 7 and auto guard in general. So movement in Tekken 7 for me is a lot of back dashing (hence auto guarding), but back dashing in this game gets me caught more often than not I find. It's an adjustment going back to a guard button and I think that's throwing me off in terms of movement and evasion in general.

One thing I do like about VF is that the side step seems WAY snappier, I pull off Side Steps way easier and more efficiently in this game I've noticed. Thankfully lower ranks haven't caught on to throws beating that stuff

I think for me, it's just adjusting to the fact that the VF seems way more close quarters and poke heavy (correct me if I'm wrong on that, please) then Tekken seems.

I think it's just throwing me readjusting coming from 1000+ hours of T7 on Steam.

But thanks for the write up, I read through it last night and it was most informative.

Still getting my head wrapped around guard buffering as well. So when I go for guard, is it best to always buffer in case of throw? Or is there any delay/punishment to always buffering the punch on guard?

For the record, I am actually enjoying the game and playing against people, well bar the constant barrage of low rank spammers that is

 

You are making a lot of correct connections and a lot of correct line of where it leads to next!

* Tekken's mechanics and especially the control scheme encourages backwards movement because guarding is built into the backwards direction. Your backwards movement in tekken is a built in option select of maneuver and defense.

* Virtua Fighter is designed to be "Forward-Biased." But more than that, Guard is Separated from Movement. But there are designed interactions. You figured it out, but let's make this super concrete for you.

-- If you backdash and press and hold G, you will see that you will not Guard until the end of the backdash. In VF, YOU ARE VULNERABLE DURING BACKDASH (and this is not even counting the built-in Final/Ultimate Showdown penalty for backdash)!

-- If you crouch backdash (11) and try to cancel it by pressing and holding G, a similar thing happens though the crouch dash ends sooner so you will guard sooner.

-- If you forward dash and try to cancel it by pressing G ASAP, you will see that.. WOW! YOU CAN CANCEL FORWARD DASH ALMOST INSTANTLY WITH GUARD! This is no small deal!

-- If you forward crouch dash and try to press and hold G ASAP, you won't really cancel it but after 5 frames you can Guard! And 5 frames is way faster than the backdash and the crouch backdash!

-- All this said, you can evade cancel the forward and backward dashes and you can use any kind of dash to cancel a failed evade. But you can't cancel a successful evade... hmm!

* Regarding the evades (we call sidesteps, "evades" in VF--though VF4 players might call it DM for Defensive Move), you probably noticed there are successful and failed evades. It is very "binary." Because the successful evade happens if you evade when your opponent is already in execution of an attack that is evadeable the way you evaded, it is generally best if you evade when you are at a disadvantage because it will increase the chance you will successfully evade an opponent's attack. Successful evades are very cool because you will be momentarily invincible until you hit a button (directions alone do not count) or a short time has passed.

Hope this helps, it sounds like you are understanding the game very well and are making excellent observations!

Hope you are enjoying VF like I do ^_^

 

I forgot to answer another one of your questions.

Yes, whenever you would Guard, you should be inputting a throw escape. When you whiff, you should input a throw escape up to the point you would stop guarding. Also, if you are doing a “reversal” (moves that “counter” certain classes of moves) I would also input a throw escape.

You can even throw escape when you evade too!

 

Sorry to wade into a random thread and act like a know it all but I don't think this is necessary in FS/US.

It's easy enough to escape throws on reaction with us only needing to hold 1/3 directions and from guarding.

Probably is wise to input a throw escape during a reversal though.

 

Well, I'm not saying they have to. But considering how many attacks (which are slower than throws) are guaranteed against you when you whiff, even a throw whiff... I think it's a very good idea to input a throw escape if you can manage it. If you can't, that's okay, until you eat an 80 damage throw that you didn't even bother to layer your defense a little to protect against.

Beginners do not need to do this now or feel bad for not doing it. But I am letting them know it's a thing... Any situation you would normally try to guard is a good idea to have a throw escape done in that situation too--and only for as long as you would normally have Guard pressed/held (this detail is the hard part that you slowly work towards executing more and more over time).

I should say it here, the challenge is to not end up turtling as a result of inputting throw escapes. But that takes a lot of application to get used to and I still skip out on throw escapes a lot too.

The cool thing is that you cannot always guard against attacks when the attack is guaranteed. But you can always escape throws when a throw is guaranteed.

 

Just started getting into Room Matches. What are "Kumite" and "League Matches" ?

 

Thanks for the info. How many people are needed for a League event?

 

This post has been a really good read.
One thing Ive had some issues with coming from predominately 2d fighters, is really getting the hang of when its “your turn” so to speak. Also some characters consistently break my flow (Aoi, Akira, Shun - usually). The latter will be fixed with reps and matchup experience, the former is a lil tougher!

This info on guarding, throw breaks and other points is really great. Great game. Thank you all for the info!