26 - 30 March - Dutch invasion in Stockholm

Hey everyone,

I had a really nice trip. Thanks to everyone for that!

To be honest I hadn't expected to have such bad results this weekend. I remember watching some videos of the Swedish guys playing and I wasn't really impressed. I also thought I knew a lot about the matchup vs akira, jacky, eileen and pai so I didn't really look into them at all, but each of you really showed new potential of the characters to me.

I really loved that each of you had solid defence but also everyone had his own personal style that was very different from the others.

Bob: I really enjoyed our matches and talks. I'm not sure if I'm right but I think I saw a lot of influences from tekken in your style because it was more aggresive than that of the other players(it could also just have to do with akira). It was great to see how you mixed your offence around so much that it was very hard to react to, alongside the instant damage akira gives I had a lot of moments where I just froze or needed to block a bit more just to be able to keep up with the tempo. I think we played some of my fav. games this weekend!

Jeneric: When playing against your characters, any of them, I always felt I was choosing the wrong options. You had all my options covered at all times and I could never get in or take over I was very scared because of that and it resulted in brainfreeze and falling back to the same choices everytime I did have a chance. Thank you for explaining all the things to me in our talks, you explained them so clear that I directly had an idea on how to implement them or focus on them in my game. Next time I hope to show how well you tips worked!

Simon: You really impressed me with your aoi this weekend. I thought I was used to playing her, but I wasn't ready for your offensive style. Throws and combos everywhere; her damage may be a little less than other characters but aoi really makes up for it with her incredible pressure tools. I enjoyed our conversations too, thanks!

Skatan: It was great you played pai so much during the weekend, I could watch a lot of your matches and steal a lot of your stuff. I enjoyed our games though. They seemed a bit slower than versus the other players because you were very spacing orientated but you mixed your offence up so well that I always had to look out for that low sweep or sweared at myself for not ducking that high. I'm not very proud of the tournament win, so let's both just forget about it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Manjimaru: We only played a few games, so I can't really comment on them. It was great to meet you though and I hope we can play more the next time!

Thanks to all the dutchies for the nice weekend too. It was a little bit strange to go on a holiday with people I normally only see at meetings and talk vf-talk, but it was really "gezellig" and I'm happy everything worked out with the hotels and the travelling and stuff. Let's do it again soon!

 

Ahh, good, then there isn't some new holy grail of defence for me to ignore as i ignore ETEG, ahahahaha, on a side note: i suck @ defense. +1 to fecks comments.

 

Hey guys
I won't be typing a long post like you guys, sorry about that =P

While this trip certainly was fun, it also confirmed for me that my love for VF is pretty much over. I am lacking 10 levels of skill and know that I have to put in several days of training just to keep up. I just don't have the motivation for that anymore.
So yeah, I guess that means I am now offically retired heh.
Thanks for the kind words though!

Also thanks to the Swedish guys for showing us around a bit and being nice folk in general. Though I don't believe a word of that supposely nice weather in Sweden =P
You people are all very skilled and I was pretty impressed with all the ETEG's, Fuzzies and other stuff going around. Skatan's Nerv wallet and the Reimu molester stick amused me to no end btw

 

Because of your registration date? ;P

Anyways these terms arent used much these days due to people being more proficient in general with throw escapes. (or not) Whichever, Im not trying to sound geeky, I just wanted to give props to the swedes for the amount of throwescapes they were pumping out. I suppose its fine to say just ETEG.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be honest I hadn't expected to have such bad results this weekend. I remember watching some videos of the Swedish guys playing and I wasn't really impressed. </div></div>
Thats what you get for relying on matchvideos for info /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

Who cares about all this, I want to see some photos of the dragonslair.

 

Noone invited you, go back to SF4

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUNa9tcp6tk

If DL didn't exist in Sweden the fightingscene would be totally different.

 

That looks awesome man, I'm jealous. Actually, I'm sure we're jealous.

Sp00n, huil niet zo.

 

Haha, damn right we're jealous.

I'll be comparing every place I'm gonna play at to DL from now on, I'm afraid /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Just stop being such a terrible attempt at a troll?

 

As always I'm the last one in to write (well, except Xzi but never expect that guy to write /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif )

First off, thanks to the Dutch for coming here to play us, it was really nice to feel like someone had challenged you and was coming for blood. Myself I've been in a bit of a slump playingwise for the last month and a half or so and had temper tantrums over it (sticks were flying) as the other players can attest to So I wasn't that confident in my abilites as this last week approached, so I tried out the regular Vanessa BS that stopped working here a year ago but is really murder on those unaware of it and it worked quite well and all the time playing against the other Stockholmians really created a solid foundation so after a while I got in the groove of things.

If you want some general tips for you as a group, I think you should definitely try to rely less on setups, apply more basic mid/throw attack patterns, THROW A LOT MORE and when in disadvantage go to defensive techniques first and abare second. The first guy to defend strong as well as punishing his opponents moves on block/whiff/evade will get a huge advantage over the others and you guys are not that far away from being able to do that. Throwing is really the key, when we Swedes evaluated the weekend we all thought that you guys didn't pressure with throws so much, so defending sometimes was a little easier then it should have been. Try throwing directly after blocking moves or hitting attacks, it will make your opponent weary of being passive.

It's easy when you're in a smaller group of people to fall into a trap and just play against the player's patterns and be satisfied. As we Swedish players also can attest to, it's a constant battle to try to stay above that and apply universally strong options so everyone as a group can progress. This is probably the biggest obstacle you guys have to overcome now to get to another step, where it will be equally difficult to progress again. The upside here is that your group of players is bigger then ours (heck, for 2-3 years it was just me and Bob in Stockholm), so you guys really should be able to accelerate at a bigger speed then we did.

Vortigar - As Bob said, Brad is a complex character to learn, he requires a good deal of hitchecking. Try to use his long range moves more like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and such to close the distance to your opponent and maybe you should do the swaying and ducking as much in favor of simple basics, then when you've got that down to a T you apply more of Brad's special movements.

Krye - I think you were definitely the strongest player out of the group, as far as tips go you've already read it in the other thread. I was especially impressed with your good timing to punish evades. I also noticed that you really did fewer and fewer mistakes as the weekend progressed which is really good.

Ake...whatever. Heartless Asian Shun Player /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif - I enjoyed our matches a lot, Shun has always been a black hole in my VF knowledge base and I've always meant to correct it but not yet managed to figure him out. After playing against you I think I have a much better basic gameplan against any Shun I'll meet in the future compared to before your visit. I think you maybe play a little too much in entires sequences, like you'll do the same series of moves several times in the same situations. This makes you a little bit too predictable with a character that lives on being UNpredictable. Just try to break down your game in smaller bits and vary your move choice and you'll be an even bigger pain in the ass.

Seiko Killa - The other player to give me some trouble, your Wolf had really fucked up mixups that messed with my head at first. I definitely think Wolf is the character you play best with and you really showed you could sometimes adapt well and counter my strategies. But damn it, NEEDS MORE GIANT SWING'U!

NGKrush - You really surprised me with your eagerness to learn and even writing down my rantings in a book (!). I think the key to your progress is really just to be more active, you tend to freeze up a lot. Applying more defense is really essential with a character like Jeffry that seldom gets to fuzzy and rarely seems to get to space out from his opponents when he's had his moves blocked.

Sp00n - I'm a bit sad that you feel like quitting to play entirely. I remember first time I went to another country to play, I met ChiefGutti and he thoroughly schooled me in all things VF by beating me senseless with all the basics and defensive techniques, but it inspired me so much and I got so happy about when I came home I started to practice like a madman, I wanted to be as good at all things VF as him. I'm not saying I'm at the level ChiefGutti was then (I really am not), but I was kinda hoping you'd feel inspired rather then sad about your losses. I actually think you pressured throws best of all the Dutch players, however you didn't use the big dmg throws that much. Aoi actually DOES have good damage output from mid/throw if you use moves like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif coupled with 270 back and forward throws. You don't have that much far to go to compete as you think. Keep on fightin'!


Also, big thanks to Manjimaru for coming over at the last minute. Although you probably didn't feel you played well, I actually think you proved to be a great challenge. You provided a really solid nitaku gameplan which made me work my defense overtime and you delayed throws a lot more, something you didn't use to do. IMO you should really exploit Akira's tracking mids more, they ARE great moves in all aspects. As always your stick technique was very impressive.

 

Thank you all for kind words.. I just have been brought up in a world where effort doesnt matter, only results. EDIT: But Im really working on convincing myself to enjoy things more...

As for Akiras tracking mids: no, I wouldnt call them great by any stretch of imagination. Being safe on block is their only redeeming feature. Otherwise you can punish all with your best launcher if you evade them. And it happened a lot(although you didnt punish). They dont do much damage and offer no guaranteed followups. Only one of them even knocks down. If they were great, they would be fullcircular If Akira had actual damagedealing catch throw I would moan less.

I admit I noticed that most people tend to evade into the screen (up on joystick). You guys too. This should in theory be an exploitable weakness, however I cant really make my brain to keep track of TWO stances, both my stance with opponent and my stance in relation to the screen. Thats bit too much to keep track of at all times..

A few pointers I feel I can make on the few players I actually managed to win more against:
vortigar: evade more. Its a huge thing against Akira. Also, try to use Brad's standard f+P more. At times you wasted frames by going into slip first before doing an initial attack, and I eventually got myself kicked up to speed to punish that. Problem that lot of aspiring Brad players have is that they try to do everything from slips, whereas its important to understand how to use his standard stance as well. Using slips too much will get you interrupted a lot. Nice slips into throws though. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Akebueno: Im not a Shun expert, but obvious things first: you repeated same things too many times. Theres lot of moves you didn't use much either. Like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif as abare attack, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif... well, a lot of moves /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Im hoping you find the time to train Shun more, hopefully I will get to play you guys again some time in future.

edit: more videos
Jeneric vs Manjimaru 1
Notice the OM thru Jackys okizeme /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif at about 4:40-4:47. Ive studied Kingos play!

Otherwise these videos are horrible to watch for me, so many mistakes, input errors, freezes. >_<

Skatanmilla vs Manjimaru 1

Vortigar vs Manjimaru

Jeneric vs Manjimaru 2

ps. I learned couple things. The triple-escape timing of Akiras catch vs Bob clicked in at the gathering, although I was only doing double-escape against Bob but I feel that the triple escape is easy now. Also, I finally figured out the button I need to press to get to second hand side in quest (not trivial with modded stick).. Hopefully this will reduce my 2p-deficiency that has been bothering me for like a decade..

pps. Seeing Jenerics advice about throwing a lot more: I guess it comes down to who you normally play against. If you play against more beginning players who abare out of disadvantage, then naturally you incline toward attacking more when you have advantage. But when you play against better players with good defense, then the offense will be more about slipping a 0frame throw thru their defense. Ultimately amount of throws and attacks will even out. Consider this.

ppps. Jeneric: I think you made a typo and meant that vortigar shouldn't be doing so much slipping in favor of his basics

 

Nope, you're not the last Jeneric ^_^

Let's do this in order of playing you guys, if I can remember it right. I can't really comment on your gameplay as the stuff I was seeing on display merely existed in my head on a theoretical level. I've come to realise that this theoretical level of VF does exist and it may be closer than I think.

Skatan: My first contact with the Swedish fists of doom... That first set of matches really shook me up. It almost felt like playing the AI or something, every time I pressed a button the appropriate counter for that move came out the other end. Loads of pressure was coming my way left and right and I had no way to deal with it. I wish I had your reflexes man. It took me a couple of days to be able to deal with your playstyle. And even then it merely turned 10-0 into 10-3.

Jeneric: A lot less direct pressure, a slower pace, but ah! there's a snake lurking under that calm grassy field. That was my experience playing against you. Even while knowing Vanessa by heart and having employed many of her setups myself I kept falling for a lot of stuff, which was really frustrating. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.

Simon: My first match against you was the most unnerving thing ever. Sitting in a room with five guys talking in Swedish around me, up against a character which seemed familiar one moment and completely alien the next. We didn't speak much so I really can't say much more than: GG's!

Bob: I've been reading comics on and off for about 16 years now, you tend to remember things. I'm also the type who does some background research on whatever they do as I love little factoids and random trivia. I'll definately look up some issues of Thorgal.

By the time I got around to playing you I had realized my level wasn't high enough to be a challenge against any of you so I started trying to copy the constant defensive techniques that I was seeing getting employed by you guys. Akira is a bit more obvious than the other characters being played so I met some success. Made it to 10-5 even at one point. On the other hand I think you could take any match from me if you really wanted. Hearing your fingers rattle away at the buttons was quite frightening during the first game we played, I hope I can one day employ that kind of fingerspeed effectively.

Manjimaru: Why thank you, as an entertainer, I aim to please /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif We fought some good matches on a more equal ground than any other I'd played thus far that weekend. The first couple games swayed back and forth until you got my number and started on a streak. Somewhere along the way I then managed to switch somethings up and take three games in a row but you adapted back and beat me for the last stretch. I had a lot of fun playing you. You've got a very nice Akira going there. Edit: Yeah, I've a hard time timing dodges, I eat a lot of free hits due to that, against Akira and Lei its too important though so I shouldn't be afraid of that.


While we were planning the trip to Sweden a little voice in the back of my mind kept saying 'why on Earth are you going? you know you haven't got a shot'. Finally getting to play you guys really hammered that notion into solid reality and that question 'what am I doing here?' kept me busy for a while. It took me two days to compose myself, shove it aside (not far enough, but a little) and try to get something going. Along the way something struck me though as I started trying to implement constant defensive techniques the realization came that maybe I could one day be able to manage this level of play.

Long before this trip I'd already consoled myself with the thought that I was never going to be the best in Holland. But I've been shown that this game can be played on a whole different level than what we've been doing up until now and that perhaps aspiring toward that goal (instead of just beating my direct opponents) could reset the playing field somewhat.

On a less fanciful note, I've often thought of switching characters and tried out many of them and never really felt at home (with Jacky firmly at the top of the 'wow this is uncomfortable' mountain). Brad's 'hunting for a launch or crumple' style really plays to my sensibilities. I picked up Lion mostly due to sheer annoyance of not knowing jack-squat about him and he's somehow stuck around. Maybe its time I spent some time with Sarah, the character I most enjoy watching a skilled player go to town with, simply to hammer in the basics of defence and offence which she so direly needs.

 

WOW, this tread is exploding with replies! that's what you get for not checking in one in a while...

at the moment i'm at work so i don't have much time to read every post thoroughly. but i browsed through it and i want to thank everyone for tips to improve our play.

a big thank you to the Swedish lads for the hospitality. and let's not forget Manjimaru who traveled from Finland to play with us.

ps saturday and sunday i'll have some time to watch some of the footage recorded during the trip. thus expect some vids from me in the weekend!

 

Jeneric vs Manjimaru 3

Vortigar vs Manjimaru 2

Skatanmilla vs Manjimaru 2

Skatanmilla vs Manjimaru 3

ps. I wish I had been in a better mood and had more time and played you dutch guys more with my secondary characters. I believe I managed to surprise Skatan a bit with my Sarah antics at first too. Theres lots of stuff to be learned about Sarah.

Thanks for games, everybody.

 

Us Dutchies getting advice over and over to use more throws and depend a little less on setups...wow! Seems like I have been missed after all. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I have to admit that I'm starting to regret it more and more that I didn't go.