Virtua Fighter-Video game or Sport?

Virtual On(operation moongate) was considered by hardcore fans as a "Sport" requiring skills such as spacial reasoning, pinpoint reflexes, and forethought. Aside from the investment of time, practice, and patience required for the gratification of skill in both games, how does the Virtua Fighter series constitute itself as more than a "conventional video game?" Can it be also be described as a "Sport?"

 

I dont think VF can be describe as a sport. Its more like chess. A game of wits and intelligence. With some manual dexterity thrown in. But Its a know fact that manual dexterity is more metal prowess than anything else.

 

Well Jedi, my aching fingers and wrists would tend to disagree with you on this issue. /versus/images/icons/frown.gif

Since we have major players around the world like IMF who practice hand movements with his arcade stick (no pun intended) on a daily basis just to maintain consistency of technique execution during heated competitions isn't a sport I don't know what is. Since VF is both physically and mental demanding and is gear more towards competition rather than fun like other videogames which is what all sports are structed on.

/versus/images/icons/tongue.gif But of course I'm not denying the strategy characteristics within the game play of VF rather at least on the surface from a mainstream point of view it being a sport would be a better description.

 

Temjin.. the key word you mentioned about virtual on is hardcore. So I am sure it will fit with the hardcore vf4 fans as well while casual vf4 fan will think in a different manner.

 

I'd say its both - game and sport - depending on the level of play. For me its a game - I play a couple of times a week, and mainly on PS2. But for those competing at a high level I'd say its definately a sport. It requires technique, physical agility and mental preperation. Also, I refer you to this link, posted earlier:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2154092.stm

MAXIMUM

 

I think sport brings to mind direct competition between players, not the indirect competition of manipulating a character onscreen, and then seeing how the onscreen character does against the opponent's.

I'm not saying anyone has to sprint or jump or sweat their nuts off for something to be a sport, but there should be more factors involved than pressing buttons and letting the arbitration of a processor interpret those presses into results. Even if you can get past the concept of a keyboard and processer being the means of play, there's still a problem:

Sports demand equality between the opposing teams in terms of equipment, rules, etc. and there is no absolute equality when two players can pick different characters. I'm not interesting in hearing blah blah blah it's all up to the individual's skill and there are no tiers blah blah blah. It remains a fact.. I can't decide I want to play tennis with a four foot wide racket, and you can't decide to even things out by using a butterly net and hurling the ball like a lacrosse ball. Sure we can play tennis or lacrosse with different brands of equipment, but that equipment must fall within specifications that are easily outlined on paper. It's too hard to come up with numbers on paper that somehow show that all 13 characters in VF4 are still equal.

Based on that, I'm more inclined to say FPS games, especially teamlplay FPS games, are closer to being a true all-processor-driven sport than VF or VO.

 

Exactly, I agree with you creed. Especially on the differences between characters. Cause as we all know, akira is unfair, or was it jacky. Maybe its Lion.... Ive never heard Shaq say, playing the Knicks is unfair?

 

anything played on a fucking computer or on any board - wood, cardboard or electronic - isn't a fucking sport, and never will be - lest the world be overrun by the Fat Greasy Shithead Online Game Front. anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking moron; anyone who actually says otherwise is some asshole geek who is trying to seek validity to his piece of shit game he spent too much time and money on.

 

quick edit, this was to fei, I accidentally replied to bungle.
edit part 2: if you feel the urge to flame this post read the reply to it first ^_^.

wow, good point fei!
not.

Especially on the differences between characters. Cause as we all know, akirais unfair, or was it jacky. Maybe its Lion....

See, this is the kind of lame shit I put in the disclaimer for. Read closely,
don't dash off a quick reply or write off discussions of "balance" as whining. Is the game maybe 90% balanced, so that any character has a good chance of beating any other character? OK, sure. I'll buy that.
Is it 100% balanced? No.. how could it be? And if it's not 100% balanced then it's not gonna be a sport.

At this point, you want to drag out:
Ive never heard Shaq say, playing the Knicks is unfair?

This is deceptive. Let's say the lakers play the knicks.
The players are competing DIRECTLY with each other. There are differences in size and weight and skill, but the differences are ENTIRELY on the human players. They both get the same ball and the same rules and the same hoops. But in VF, you have the differences between the people AND the differences between the characters. Sarah cannot stomach or head crumple the opponent, which means she cannot set up TR backstaggers. Akira cannot crescent kick. Wolf doesn't have an uncounterable 14 frame mid attack. Jacky doesn't have a sweep that always knocks down.

There's no mathematical way to measure the value of moves and how they mix together, so it's easy to say "game's balanced enough for me". But sarah not being able to backstagger might be like a point guard just literally not being allowed to shoot a three. He might be an awesome point guard in all other respects, and the teams might be fair, but the rules for him shooting threes are just plain different. Akira getting good linear attacks but no crescent kicks could be compared to the knicks getting a smaller hoop while the lakers get an extra man on the floor. The differences between the guys working the controls on a VF cabinet are NOT the same as the differences between the characters they represent.

 

doh! After a chat on #vfhome, I figured out what jedi_fei meant and totally misunderstood. He was pointing out how common it is for people to bitch about the character balance (and as long as these imbalances are obvious then you can't have something be a sport). I mistook it all for sarcasm. Sorry fei.

I'm leaving the post up because I think it explains my point of view about the difference between VF and a true sport.

 

So if we took out all the characters except one to achieve perfect equality...that would make VF more like a sport? If the game only had one character, Akira, and that's all you can play, can we say VF is now more like a sport?

Somehow, that logic doesn't appeal to me (though I understand your point).

 

So if we took out all the characters except one to achieve perfect equality...that would make VF more like a sport? If the game only had one character, Akira, and that's all you can play, can we say VF is now more like a sport?

It's pretty straightforward I think.
Akira is your ping pong paddle. As long as both players play with the same paddle, the game is ping pong and arguably a sport.

If one player picks up a tennis racket, the game isn't a sport anymore. ..even if somehow the extra size of the tennis racket was perfectly offset by its weight and awkwardness of handling. In any sport, nobody will say andre agassi won because of the brand of racket he bought, or that tiger woods pulled it off thanks to the brand of driver he prefers. But in VF there would always be a seed of doubt about a seemingly-perfect akira taking out a seemingly-perfect pai in the finals of a tournament. So yeah, I guess making everyone play akira would make it more like a sport. The equality between teams in terms of rules and equipment must be 99.9% inarguable. If we're both akira, there is no one thing my opponent can do that I can't, or vice versa.

But all of this assumes we can somehow classify a video GAME as a sport in the first place. The equality thing is just one of many problems I have classifying it as a sport.

Anyway....

 

Sport? uh...whatever.

No matter which anyone tries to cut this, there is no way that VF is a sport. It's not a sport. I'm basing this on how I view a sport is defined:

a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in

Yes, VF is an activity, and yes, it's a competitive 'game'. But in no way is VF athletic. Based on this, I cannot agree to VF being a sport. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

To KFS - your wrists hurting is not an indication of athletic output. Nor is IMF's training on the PS2.

cheers,

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

...Subuteo was almost made an olympic sport......

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

Okay...what about pocket billiards? Darts? The aforementioned table tennis? Bowling doesn't require any special or extraordinary athletic ability that I can discern to be played at the highest levels. Many would argue (certainly before Tiger) that golf doesn't either. Horseracing? Nascar?

Llanfair's got the right tack on this though...define sport and see if it jives with VF as you understand it. To me it feels (if it must be something other than VF) about 1/2 5min chess & 1/2 playing piano...sounds like a videogame to me.

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

Town Planning was an Olympic event (you could actually receive a gold medal for drawing up a town).

I don't know if people thought Town Planning was a sport.

I don't think VF is a sport.

I don't think Quake 3 Arena is a sport.

I don't think Sports video games are sports.

Some people think Auto Racing is not a sport.

More people think Golf is not a sport.

I think the WWE is a brilliant soap opera, not a sport.

DDR might be a sport.

Street Luge ... heh

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

bowling is a recreational sport. Golf is a sport. If you played golf, you wouldnt have said that. Cause after 18 holes of golf, you feel like hammered shit.

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

Also, after ping pong... having seen some world champion ping pong clips... holy CRAP they must be wasted afterwards. They stand six or seven feet back from the table and sprint side to side constantly. Their arms never stop moving. Don't let the goofy name fool you, it's a sport.

As for various forms of pool and snooker... that one gets argued a lot (no surprise).

Maybe the secret to being close to 'sport-ness' is when you have a playing field. Even the smallest playing field I can imagine for something that is only arguably a sport (pool) is 4' x 8' or 4.5' x 9'. VF has no playing field, unless you count the virtual arena (I don't).

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

You know for a white boy with 2 degrees, you're pretty narrow minded. Oh cooking isn't a sport in the eyes of athletes but don't tell that to Master chefs who compete in a sporting enviroment to be the best. /versus/images/icons/shocked.gif

With the amount of serious and intesity that VF is played it's a Freaking sport because people play to win and having fun isn't the main point of the game even though it's a part of it and there is as much physical development in comparison to all other sport. As in a sense of eye and hand coordination and mental stimina with high level presure players like AdamYuki and Hiro.

Oh for anyone who tell me that my wrist and fingers shouldn't be hurting from playing VF then trying using a Akira and getting his bloody techniques out with a damn pad and no button config. Until then Llanfair stop jumping the gun whenever something is against your law of reality. And definitely VFers in my situation know what I'm talking about./versus/images/icons/mad.gif

 

Re: Sport? uh...whatever.

One key thing to keep in mind here. Sports are revered by society and those who play them well are highly regarded and respected. Games, conversely, are considered to be enjoyed by anyone and although some games garner respect for their elite, most are just for fun and society has little opinion for the players. I'm sure all of us have gone through the phase of trying to defend one's desire to play video games at a high level. We feel it deserves the respect that an athlete gets. Well, we usually don't get that respect from those outside our little circle, and that's likely how it's going to be forever.

Back to the sport/game...

People have debated over certain games/sports that tend to fence sit in this case. Sure, darts and billiards fall into this category. Personally, I would classify them as games. Golf on the other hand, as Jedi has said, is mostly definitely a sport. I find this distinction between games and sports to be easy to determine, as I play many sports competitively and also enjoy a good game when I play one. The distinction is clear, imo. Not to offend anyone, but there are few athletic VF players - and I can see why those who have little sport experience have difficulty making the distinction between sport and game.

cheers,