VF5FS Vanessa floor scraping/low hitbox/anti-shenanigan MIDS

TL;DR version:

Mids that counterhit low-hitbox attacks AND hit recently grounded opponents:

DS combos into on CH, leaving the opponent sideturned. Be warned that the second hit has a shorter reach than the first so it will whiff if the first one connects at the tip of Vanessa's boot.
OS combos into or that are both negative frames on hit (Yes, has a special high followup but if you're using vs an opponent with an evasive move that crushes mids then the special high property is pointless). Also, to hit grounded opponents the input must be instead.
OS - (AFAIK this move doesn't combo on CH, only on Recovery Hit)

Mids that will counterhit your opponent's low-hitbox attacks (but won't necessarily OTG):
works from both stances, great range, staggers the opponent
DS hit-throw on CH
DS will crouch stagger, meaning the will knock down
DS gives +frames, unless you land it on side CH (Disclaimer: the new VF5FS animation has a slightly higher hitbox and I've had it whiff over low attacks in a match; however, for the time, I haven't been able to replicate it in the dojo)
OS combos to for a knockdown (It only connects when really close to the opponent though)
OS floats on CH (Disclaimer: similar to DS , I could have sworn this attack's hitbox is higher than VF5 vanilla)
OS hit-throw on CH (but kinda pointless since does more damage vs evasive characters)

Honorable mentions:
DS will sabaki low punches and kicks, scoring a normal hit.
OS although a special high (so I forgot to test it, sorry, but according to my experience) this move frequently OTGs. And the combo payoff and situation on block are definitely worth it.
OS even slower jumping move that floor scrapes - but this time a true mid. Big damage as well, worse on block though.

Long version:

Spoiler

I was watching a stream the other day which made me realize the need for characters' forums to have a dedicated list of mid-hitting attacks with solid hitboxes that can still hit Lion (or Shun or Eileen or Pai) out of their low stances (db+p or d+k or monkey business or phoenix stance respectively).

Even though I have already mentioned whether a move has floor scraping properties of moves in the wiki, I have to acknowledge that if someone is frustrated by playing against slippery characters... they might not have the patience to parse over all of the information in that wiki entry. Also, that information was compiled empirically, just as the moved mentioned in the "Vanessa VS" thread - so, this time, to produce this compiled list, I did some dojo testing. Which might make this list either more or less credible, depending on your outlook

Anyway, here's what I tested:

Testing vs Eileen's blocked > shoulder ram sequence:

DS gets counterhit
DS gets counterhit
DS gets counterhit in open stance
DS Hold G then punch moves can connect depending on distance
OS connects sometimes (seems like a timing thing)
OS gets counterhit
OS gets counterhit in open stance
OS flies over Eilleen then gets counterhit from behind
OS gets counterhit
OS gets counterhit

Additional testing vs Shun's low punch blocked > low kick sequence (if not mentioned, moves that whiffed vs eileen's shoulder will also whiff here):

DS WS gets counterhit open stance
DS gets counterhit
OS now gets counterhit closed stance
OS gets counterhit
OS gets counterhit
OS gets counterhit, albeit now only in closed stance
OS also gets counterhit in closed stance only
OS gets counterhit

Overall, these moves should be considered to have rather high (read: subpar) hitbox for a mid move, and should be used vs evasive characters with the understanding that, on occasion, they will just be counterhit by magic moves even when Vanessa is at a frame advantage.

Note that I didn't find a good way to test some slower moves (e.g. ) but as far as I know they don't have any good floor scraping properties anyway.

Additional testing was done by hitting the opponent with a Vanessa move.

DS moves that connect after DS 2P+K:

WS



shoulder ram

DS moves that connect after DS 1P+K CH foot crumple:

WS

(closed only)

shoulder ram (open only)
(closed only)

For fun, DS moves that connect after DS 2P+K > low punch:

WS
that's it!

OS moves that connect after OS CH flop:





shoulder ram

dunno if this has any real applications though, it's rather slow

OS moves that connect after OS QCF foot crumple:

If anyone has better ideas/setups to test in the dojo, please let me know