VF5 Lau Black Book Translation?

Would someone be so kind as to translate some of the Black Book info on Lau and post it? Lau information on this board is in short supply.

Some things I would love to see:
*Frame Date
*Strategy

Thank you in advance.

 

Frames have been up, in the VFDC: VF5 Lau Command List (First post, Myke's red text).

Some strategy is up, check Raoul's thread.

For further Lau info: wait. The voters have spoken in the "Character you wish to learn" thread, and the vast majority don't want to learn Lau (Understandable, BORING!), Jeffry (WFT?), or Wolf (WTF?).

 

I stand corrected on the frame data. Strategy however is slim pickings.

I do not understand what makes Lau boring. Is it because he is a fairly straight forward character? No real flashy moves?

 

I don't think Lau is boring. He can be played in a boring way, but that is the fault of the player. His Tiger stance mix ups are fun. His floats are awesome. Good throws. He looks cool. He is a badass. Don't believe the haters.

 

Would you mind expanding on the Tiger Stance mixups? I find it difficult to get into Tiger Stance without being punished.

 

On going, unfunny joke I "do." I mean everyone bags Kage, I feel like widening the front.

[Explains his (3rd person rocks) bias again in a topic where it doesn't belong]

Ranking (worse to better): BORING, Boring, MEH, Meh, Cool, SWEET, WAWAWEWA! (latest ranking system)

Jacky= BORING (straight forward and too good, everyone plays this prick)
Pai= BORING (So many tools, too fucking good)
Lau= Boring (straight forward and too good)
Kage= Boring (Too many options, ")
Lion= MEH (Poking characters without reversals?)
Goh= Meh (Fun, but too bare bones, P+K is tight though)
Sarah= Cool (FL)
Brad= Cool (His movements make him interesting)
Shun= Cool (A little over powered, stances make him)
Lei= Cool (")
Wolf= SWEET (Power character, a number of options, hindered by speed)
Akira= SWEET (Raw power, stompy moves, I can't play him)
Vanessa= WAWAWEWA! (DS, I'd so play her if I had a PS3 and could juggle her stances)
Jeffry= WAWAWEWA! (Straight forward, High Risk/Reward, hard to win with X2 ['cause I suck])
Aoi= WAAWAAWEEEEWA!!!!1 (You can't win with her many options and low reward)

I like characters who are hard to play/win with (except in Tekken /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif ).

 

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you get beat down at VF and then accuse your Virtua assailants of being boring.

That's called "Hating" where I'm from.

I think the best moves to enter Tiger stance are after:

4p
4p+k,p
33p,p
3k,p

I always try to do his Tiger hit throw because it is the coolest. I am still learning about the utility of the other Tiger moves, though I do like 9p a lot.

 

Getting into Tiger Stance and then being effective from it are my two main problems. Whenever I try and get into Kokei, I am mercilessly beat down.

 

Personally, there are only three useful Kokei moves.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

Unless you enter Kokei with alot of advantage, you have no choice but to use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. But the problem with anything from Kokei is that they are linear.

There is one more attack that's useful under special circumstances, and that's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. This attack will go under high attacks, and if you can hit the opponent into the wall, it will cause a wall crumple, and you can follow it up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for a bounce combo.

 

You can use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to punish failed evades for pretty good damage. It's safe too, and executes at the same time as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

 

It's true, but this is more of a guess rather than a dependable technique. Since you have to delay your attack and risk giving up your advantage. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is now linear in VF5 as well, so you still have the risk of the move being evaded as well.

 

True but I think it's worth using specifically to punish someone for trying to evade.

 

I think it's worth it because it looks awesome.

Pencil and paper only takes you so far in VF, imo. You're not doing yourself any favors by limiting your movelist.

 

well... I'm not disagreeing... I'm just trying to point out where you would use these moves.

Most people playing against Lau are not going to wait around and evade when he is in kokei. There is not enough advantage in any case where /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can beat a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or elbow. This is why I said /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is his most useful move out of Kokei because it has all the advantages of a 10 frame jab, being that if the opponent evades it, Lau is still at advantage.

This is not really about limiting the move list, it's more of a discussion on when to use what.

I have to say though, when I try to be too fancy with Lau, I lose. A Lau player has to be really consistent and stick with the basics.

 

There is something powerful in stretching out from the basics, but it takes an intimate knowledge of not only the character, but also your opponent. I'm a fantasy player who employs frames, and the fantasy side of me can't agree with you despite what the frame side is saying /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

It's a touchy situation, but I firmly believe that you should try to use as many moves as possible, with knowledge of all the moves and their properties. Don't just do what's right in the numbers, get into your opponenent's head and unleash your damage there, too. The damage Kokei /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif on hit) does extends beyond the life bar! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[/fantasy rant]

 

Another follow up, if you are in advantage, you have to use the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif option because when the first hit connects, second hit is guaranteed and it will float. Unless you can establish this threat (which is still not very common), you won't see the opponent evading most of the time.

Let's also look at the frame stats to see what I'm talking about.

I'm going to use the normal hit stats since when these moves are blocked, they are even worse, with a few exceptions.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif enters Kokei at -1.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif enters Kokei at -3
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif enters Kokei at -1.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif enters Kokei at +2 (see note 1)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif enters Kokei at +2
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif enters Kokei at +5
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif enters Kokei at +5 (see note 2)

Note 1: This stat is not representative of in-game situation since you will probably go for the guaranteed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif option for the knockdown.

Note 2: This move is not useful at all since for a 16 frame move, and you will need +4 at least to beat LP. You are better off using elbow since it's much safer if the opponent evades it. The risk reward ratio is heavily against this move.

so let's look at the attack from Kokei in each of these situations.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif at 16 frames will lose to any kind of retaliation even at +2 and the same goes for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

The good thing about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is that it can beat elbows even at disadvantage.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is fast enough to interrupt most of the opponent's faster attacks.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif can go under highs.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can go over low attacks like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

But all of these attacks are very dangerous against an opponent who can evade since all of them are heavily punishable due to the long execution frames (between 40 frames to 53 frames). The exception being /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

We can conclude that the best time to enter Kokei to be offensive is after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. The first of which is best used against an opponent who evades, and it is also special high. It loses a bit of the appeal due to Lau's new /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif which side turns the opponent on hit giving much better damage potential.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is probably the best move out of these due to the ability to go under high attacks, but at 20 frames execution, it's best used when you have good advantage.

I think the conclusion of all these is that Kokei is mostly used as a defensive technique because Lau doesn't have any good sabaki's to deal with mid disadvantage situations. It doesn't pose enough threat and doesn't have very good risk/reward ratio due to the multiple layers of guessing that you need in order to deal real damage. I still think it's a rather integral part of Lau's game because without it, it's very easy to read most of Lau's core set of moves. It's just that from Kokei stance, the higher damage options carries very very high risks that a Lau player should take into account.

 

I definitely agree with this as well. Except that I remember you hitting me out of my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif attempts at socal lol.

Anyways, frames is frames, it tells you what happens if the opponent is playing an all offensive game. When you take evade into account, anything outside of guaranteed damage is thrown out the window. I think fantasy style Lau players will enter Kokei through /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif cancel, or do things like Kokei cancel into throw.

I agree also that it heavily depends on your opponent. Against players who have experience playing against Lau, Kokei is almost useless except a few situations. Against players without the knowledge that I just posted in my previous post, you can do all kinds of variations. Once the opponent knows how to minimize the risk facing a Lau player in Kokei stance, it's very difficult to deal damage or hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in all of Lau's situations going into Kokei.

 

I have never been a fan of Lau, he indeed doesnt have many flashy moves but at least he has been improving on that front since VF4. Now he has at least that tiger hit throw which I would maybe classify as his first goodlooking move. Problem is propably that you have to play him in a boring way to win.. And I dislike that he seems forced to insert those punchflurries at every situation giving the impression that lau player is 'mashing' even if he is not. Using single moves would give the impression of more 'controlled' play. This is all just appearance of course. He propably is more fun to play with than he appears, but annoying to play against.

Although I always considered him as boring to play with as well, when I tried..

 

LOL /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif owned!

As long as people don't get the wrong idea reading these posts, then I think everything is cool. I totally agree with what you're saying, though!

 

qft..that is all