Vanessa is 'too cheap'?

So says my wife and about 4 other people in random unranked battles...

Her ability to rush you down in BOTH DS and OS [DS > OS as far as dangerous rush down is concerned cause you can't fight back sabakis] is stupidly high.

I've had less trouble dealing with enemies as Vanessa than as Akira [my main].

Only people who've beaten me are the very few who know how to attack my sabakis properly.

What are her more pronounced weaknesses? So far, the only real 'weakness' I've seen is her OS [lol]. If you've had trouble fighting other characters, who would they be?

And do you think Vanessa is considered 'cheap'?

I'd have to say she is quite cheap, almost invinicible. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if she was S or A tier...

 

Probably because Akira is a very straightforward and more easily understandable character then Vanessa.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only people who've beaten me are the very few who know how to attack my sabakis properly.

What are her more pronounced weaknesses? So far, the only real 'weakness' I've seen is her OS [lol]. If you've had trouble fighting other characters, who would they be?</div></div>What's weak about OS?

The weaknesses are a bit different depending on the stance. In DS she doesn't have that much payoff on nitaku situations, and she has incredibly bad punishment until she's at +16, which considering how the game is designed makes her weak, since she can't punish big knee class launchers with anything that hurts.

If Vanessa has a "bad matchup" I'd say it must be Pai.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And do you think Vanessa is considered 'cheap'?</div></div>Yeah, she's such a slut.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd have to say she is quite cheap, almost invinicible. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if she was S or A tier... </div></div>You need to play more. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Cheap? She can be as cheap as any of the other characters, depending who you're fighting against. Any good players would crash you down if you're too cheap with her (unlike what happens if you're LeiFei or Eileen )

One thing I know for sure is for me to win against good players (something that happens a lot less than desired) I have to input a series of well timed and VERY intricate moves in comparison to what i.e. Pai, Lau or LeiFei are able to do right off their most basic commands.

Her move list is among the longest and more complicated of any fighter. As I said before: she's one of the less cheap characters IMO. In any case it dependes a lot on who's making her "cheap".

 

She is S tier so she is very, very good. One of the top 3 characters in the game...

 

Arcadia says A tier and 4th best character in the game /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

I KNEW IT, SHE IS DA SEX0RS!

I personally don't think that 'cheap' really exists but it's a general 'term' most people understand, kinda like spam, which I believe is the noob term for 'strategic repetition' ^_^

The biggest weakness I've counted have already been mentioned by Sebo and they apply to her fully. For some odd reason, I notice my damage output goes DOWN in OS mode. And if truth be told, Vanessa on Vanessa matchups, the DS will own the OS user...

I lose the mid kick and full circular mid kick, both moves very low risk high reward. OS has little incentive for me aside from her fully sexed-up Craig Marduk tackle... [definitely put her on top instead of him... PLEAZ!!]

I am exploring OS in that it does confuse people expecting something else if they're not paying attention to her arms... But I usually use OS only if I transition from a DS move and still have advantage... ppp+k+g comes to mind. Then I go back to DS after landing a follow up.

Good posts btw peeps!

And yeah, Vanessa is teh sexy!

 

Yeah because stuff like

DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif string mixups (which have varying levels at every step, unlike pai or leifei)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif x infinity
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif x infinity
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

is VERY intricate to execute . . . you're deluding yourself if you think that vanessa is not top tier, is only 'as cheap' as any of the other characters (jeff? rofl), or that she requires unusually intricate moves. yeah, her move list is complicated, but not any more so than learning a main and a secondary character.

That being said, who cares? Play who you like to play.

 

First of all cheap tactics are just tactics you're weak against and need to buff up on.

second

I know you're kidding but a lot of people think she is cheap. If you know her strings (which a lot of people don't) or which moves of hers let her go into cancellations (a lot of people don't) she becomes much less of a threat. Though her 46K sabaki has been giving people major trouble now that I've been learning how to use it to SHUT people down *evil laugh* She also has a lot of nitaku situations.

 

She has a fair amount of cheese. Invincible? Naw. S or A tier, yes.

What's weak about OS?

The weaknesses are a bit different depending on the stance. In DS she doesn't have that much payoff on nitaku situations, and she has incredibly bad punishment until she's at +16, which considering how the game is designed makes her weak, since she can't punish big knee class launchers with anything that hurts.
</div></div>

What he said.

OS works surprisingly well against the little bitch though. (omg, Sebo advocated OS for something!!!)

Why is that move among good ones?

(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings aren't that good either)

 

As I said in my post, "for me to win against good players" using Vanessa I need A LOT more than those basic moves. Go that route against i.e. JHow, Happy Friend, Oxford or Ikesarah and you'll see what I mean. Do I get 10th kyus out of the way with those moves if they get on my nerves? Most certainly.

 

No.

 

I'm puzzled to why so many here seems to have come to the conclusion that Offensive Stance is in any way weak.

Fact is, I'd say that it (especially in Version C) is stronger then Defensive Stance.

 

I blame Sebo's DS fanaticism!

Good Vanes use both stances, bottom line! Geewaiho is a fine example.

 

The term "cheap" does exist.

It's exactly what it means. It's more, for less. In this case it's more reward for less risk.

Ignoring the existence of the term "cheap", does not in anyway prove or show people that you're some kind of super player or of superior competitive mind.

 

It's both smart and cheap.

Cheap is smart.

Real talk.

 

Deleted my post lol. Can't force my views on others. But to me, cheap is what the kids at arcades spout when they don't know what's up from down.

 

Just remove the negative connotations from the word, because it still is what it is. To ignore something like that imo is being in denial or delusional.

If something is cheap, then it's cheap. That doesn't say anything about it being good or bad. Just means that it's more, for less.

A scrub crying cheap is bad, because they see it as a bad thing, and that's why they'll never get better.

A good player can still acknowledge something being cheap, and in turn could be something that they'll want to do themselves because that's called playing smart and playing to win or get better.

 

Cheap is subjective -- I've got to agree with KrsJin on this one.

If you've just purchased the game, you might think 2P spam is cheap and damned near unbeatable or if you've never played Kage you might think his TFT ring outs are cheap, etc.

Nothing in VF5 is cheap; rather, it is effective until someone learns how to deal with it.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. Good explination.

 

Of course it's subjective.

This exactly why I said a scrub crying cheap is bad, because they'll think it's a bad thing and won't get better.

A good player or someone that wants to learn will use it as a learning experience and may aswell use it for themselves too, or figure out ways to beat it because there's plenty of that(ways to beat it) too.

You can't sit here and deny that 2P or TFT isn't cheap. Whether it's a good or bad thing, doesn't need to be said because that too is subjective. It's an easier way for Kage to ring you out with less risk, not only that it's confirmable because you're tossed ten feet in the air. 2P has you crouched on the 1st frame avoid all highs, and on counter hit puts the opponent in to the first level of "nitaku" at -7.

My point of this post is that it's effective at less a cost, than something else that requires more work but produces the same effect. Again, it's more, for less.

We gotta stop here though, cause this is going to turn into semantics.