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Unnecessary move presence in VF?!

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by SUGATA, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    I always thought, that VF have not UNNECESSARY moves unlike many other fightings (Tekken, Soul Calibur)-i.e. all moves from all characters are needed in some conditions/situations, there are never no unnecessary or clone-moves(synonim moves) ...
    ...But one day when i learned Brad i found that he has that type of move: it is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif!

    Explanation:
    He has 2 already similar moves: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifand /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif-they have almost the same frame data (+1 vs 0 on CH, 16 vs 13 dmg- never mind); same range; same stnce status (not crushing high or low).
    ...BUT, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif have string continue by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (that is safe on guard and half-spin), so /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif unlike /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is much more good move, because more safe: even on guard (-14) you can continue by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif(string) and crush opponent's punish. So there is no need in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif...

    What do you think about this VF-phenomen?
     
  2. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    You seen Kage's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?
     
  3. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    I think its good for Okizeme situations especially against delayed rising attacks.
     
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Have to respectfully disagree with you there! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

    IMO, of all Brad's low kicks, this one is the least telegraphed which makes it vital as a round finisher, where low kicks get most of their mileage from.

    So while it may not be the most useful or versatile of low kicks in Brad's arsenal, I wouldn't say it's made completely redundant and hence unnecessary.
     
  5. Rodnutz

    Rodnutz Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    XxRodnutzxX
    XBL:
    XxRodnutzxX
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is useful against people who don't like to tech roll /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif yeah yeah I know you can use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif the same, but I just had to show him that you can find a use for everything.
     
  6. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    Please tell me what /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifadvantage is over /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?
    i don't see this /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif
    But i see /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif advantage-2nd /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifcontinue, that, while all other properties are the same, give /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif much more safe usage, especially at round's end, when guarding your kick (-14) by enemy is fatal.
     
  7. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Be patient SUGATA, they have already changed Brad's low kicks in VF5R /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
     
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    I already stated one advantage. The animation of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is less obvious than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (this is what I meant by "least telegraphed" in case you didn't understand).

    The /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif kicks with the leading leg while /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif kicks with the rear. To me, this added deception can be an advantage when you need to finish off the opponent in a hurry.

    Yes, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has a canned follow-up, but it's high and can get you killed if the opponent ducks.

    Just to be clear, I'm not saying /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is overall better than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. I personally use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif much more in regular play since it is very versatile. All I'm saying that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif can be useful at the right time.
     
  9. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    May be. Agree, possibly this (less visually noticeable to the reactionis like Goh's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif) is the only advantage of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif over /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
     
  10. combo2008

    combo2008 Well-Known Member

    kage's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is useless against smart players, but u can use it sparringly for players like lei fei who goes into these stances they can't get out of in time to block. or someone like pai or eileen who does alot of quick strings from all over the place.
     
  11. KoD

    KoD Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    codiak
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

    Everything else is unnecessary.
     
  12. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    Hail to the god that you are realy WRONG...otherwise i would have thrown VF on the scrap-heap /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
     
  13. White_Worm

    White_Worm Well-Known Member

    Sometimes, I honestly think that there are moves put into VF just to "punish" a player for not being precise with their input.

    The brad /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif example is one. Another is Akira's "Windmill" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. I swear the windmill is only in the game so you can't buffer in the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif as fast as you could in Evo.

    'Course, I might just be pessimistic /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
     
  14. Ash_Kaiser

    Ash_Kaiser Marly you no good jabroni I make you humble... Bronze Supporter

    You forgot DM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.
     
  15. Seidon

    Seidon The God of Battle walks alongside me! Content Mgr El Blaze

    DMPK renders everything else obsolete.
     
  16. quash

    quash Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SuperVernier
    XBL:
    GUILTY GAIJIN
    jacky's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif are the same move, but the former doesn't seem to want to come out when i do it in combos, so i use the latter.
     
  17. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    That's good - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif executes 1 frame faster (14 vs. 15).
     
  18. quash

    quash Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SuperVernier
    XBL:
    GUILTY GAIJIN
    does this mean we can put /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on the list of moves that are arbitrarily deemed useless?
     
  19. Cozby

    Cozby OMG Custom Title! W00T!

    PSN:
    CozzyHendrixx
    XBL:
    Stn Cozby
    Couldn't commands as such work as delays on eteg?
     
  20. Slide

    Slide Well-Known Member

    no
     

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