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Total recovery time

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Mackfactor, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Vf5sega
    I know i saw this info somewhere but i cannot find it now.
    Neways.

    I would like to know how to apply math on TOTAL recovery time. For example 46 K+G with goh is total 51 frame. If i do a successful evade, i would like to know the equation/formula to know what advantage i will be in after evading a move thats total 51 in frames.

    1 more question what is the ACT mean in the frame data?
     
  2. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
  3. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Vf5sega
    ty
    now all i gotta do is write up the adv of all the long recovery moves
    ) :
     
  4. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Vf5sega
    DM advantage formula
    Total frames of opponents move - 21 frames for your DM - your disadvantage before the DM = your advantage after successful DM

    For instance, if you are playing Akira, and have just had your + blocked by Jacky, you are at a disadvantage of -4. If Jacky tries an elbow , which has 36 total frames, and you DM successfully, you will have

    36 - 21 - 4 = 11 frames of advantage

    so, at best, you are guaranteed a standing . If, instead, you had evaded Jacky's elbow after having your blocked (-5 disadvantage), you would have only

    36 - 21 - 5 = 10 frames of advantage

    and no attacks would be guaranteed. Note that this formula represents the best case scenario; if you input the DM command slightly late, you will have less advantage. If you are at small disadvantage and evade a move with long execution frames, e.g. kage +, and try to counterattack immediately, you can end up being hit by the original move (in other words, your evade is complete before the opponents move even finishes executing, and it tracks once you push a button to counterattack).
    there thats what i was looking for!

    Another thing i noticed while scribbling through my notes using this equation, alot of the strings do not show the total frames.. just single moves..
    ) :
    how bout for a failed evade.. without crouch dash G cancel or whatver.. Another thing i noticed while scribbling through my notes using this equation
     
  5. VFnumbers

    VFnumbers Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    PSN:
    VFnumbers
    XBL:
    VFnumbers
    if u see a failed evade their disadvantage is probably greater than 21frames. Assuming they use Evading Crouchdashing Guard or Evading Dashing Guard the disadvantage can be lower than 21 frames.
    I practice the failed evading cancels by setting cpu to use OMp after guarding
     
  6. Mackfactor

    Mackfactor Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Vf5sega
    Basara during failed evade would be sick, if it is greater than 21 frames. I been usually doing either F P+K P, single palm, or PK after seeing a failed evade. but a well timed basara could ne nice to try.

    NEWAYs... kinda of a big request but..
    Frame data only shows TOTAL time on single moves.. does neone have the data for TOTAL time on string moves?? If not, can someone update it
    ( :
    much appreciated.

    Sorry for the big request, i know it'll take alot of time, but, it would be nice to know the total frames of each move. Ive been trying to memorize ppl's frame data guard, CH, hit, etc.. if i added knowing the advantage after evading successful i feel i could improve my game even further.
    I have a sick obsessive behavior towards learning VF.. so, when i dont know something i start to twitch and start turning blue like goh.
    ) :
     
  7. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    The idea is to correctly predict an evade and begin your attack before you see the failed evade. You can connect anything you want.
     
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    All the frame data you see on the VFDC command lists were obtained from official (Japanese) VF5 guides. So if the data is missing from the command list then it simply wasn't available to begin with.

    The "total" frames of mid-string moves is useful for calculation purposes only if the attacker happens to stop at a particular move. But since you can never guarantee when the attacker will stop mid-string, then the value in having this information is diminished IMO, and that's probably why it was never provided in the first place.
     
  9. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    Im not entirely sure about that if the evade is dash-canceled..
    Plus, Im pretty sure you cant connect fullycharged charge moves even on a normal failed evade [​IMG]
     
  10. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    If you attack before the evade, then the evade will be successful, and your attack will miss (assuming it was evadable to begin with).

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can connect anything you want.</div></div>
    Manji's right in that you can't connect anything you want, and mackfactor is on the right track. Moves that execute in 21 frames or faster are guaranteed against a failed evade. In other words, if the attack is slower than the 21 frames of the evade, then obviously the evader will recover in time to guard.

    A failed evade that is cancelled (e.g. with a standing dash guard cancel) shortens the failed evade to something less than 21 frames. How much less all depends on how fast the standing dash guard cancel was input.
     
  11. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    Iirc there was some hard limit put to it in VF4->VF5, so as far as I know its not possible to cancel failed evade arbitrarily fast. There used to be discussion about it here on VFDC. However, I have no clue what the numbers are.

    Also Im not 100% sure of this, as Im just mirroring what someone else has said here in VFDC somewhere some time ago. Im inclined to agree with it though.

    In practise I have found [8][6][6][G] to be surprisingly effective at blocking punish-attempts.
     
  12. Plague

    Plague Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    plague-cwa
    XBL:
    HowBoutSmPLAGUE
    Yeah. I wasn't thinking of the 21 frame limitation. Thanks for clearing that up.
     
  13. Shag

    Shag Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    ShagPSN
    XBL:
    Shagnificent
    I don't know who put up the current frame data for VF5. Whoever did (Sega, "i60" [​IMG] ) was fucking lazy.

    Prior to VF5 execution time was listed for all moves, even ones from mid-string. Due to the info at the time I learned that some moves in earlier games were punishable mid string like VF4 (all versions) Jeffry's [3][P][+][K][P][P]

    Even if it wasn't available I could sorta figure it out in VF4/Evo. I'd just use the record feature and experiment.

    But hey at least in VF5 we now know active and total frames. [​IMG]
     

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