The Use of Upkeep.

So, I've been playing around with Upkeep (OS: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif), and trying to figure out some nice followups to use.

My usual instinct is to crouch-dash, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, but it's blocked pretty much every time. Would /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (Lancer takedown) or some variant, such as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (Fake Lancer) be better? Either my opponents are just great at waggling out of a struggle, or I'm picking the wrong followup to take advantage of it.

 

I for one would like to know the exact amount of frames you get for advantage. I like to just use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after it hoping that my opponent will be too busy trying to attack to realize they just got hit with a suspiciously short low throw. Unfortunately this really on works on scrubs...everyone else expects me to do something so they just block.

I think in the end it's better to just go for the more damaging throw, and hit em with your oki game when they go down...

 

Death Scythe (6_+K) used to crush all attacks in VF4 after this throw. I suppose it's still more or less the same (beware of 10f P's though), It's safe on block and great damage but special High not Mid. You can still play a guessing game with 3+K variants, throw/low throw.

It's true Vanessa's movelist misses this info about advantage, as it's listed opponent is down after the throw which is not true. I'll try to test what's the exact advantage next time.

 

I've been toying around with upkeep in player matches and it seems it doesn't even give decent frame advantage - after OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif i try /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif thinking that since that's her fastest mid NC that'd net me some guaranteed damage, yet i keep getting punched/low punched out of it.

<s>I'm starting to fear that vane doesn't have frame advantage at all /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif </s>

Nope it was just lag. She's at +4, i can elbow to beat low punches, see the thread about the version C movelist.

 

For not knocking down and doing lower-than-average damage, it HAS to give frame advantage of some sort.

Ppl have said that in VF4E, Upkeep gave her +4. Have you tried testing to see how far that +4 can go (if indeed +4)?

I haven't officially started fooling around with her in Sparring yet, but the first thing that would come to mind would be Intruder Step/frame advantage moves.