The Story Behind Fireballs, Sparks and Explosions in Tekken.....

The characters of the original 2D fighting games(and some current 2D fighting games) use sprites to represent the characters on screen. Sprites are 2D graphic bitmaps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_(computer_graphics)

Because the concept of hit physics had not yet really been invented, when 2 bitmaps clash on the screen there were only a few options to convey the of concept damage or brutality. One option was the use sound to emphasize hits, kicks, throws etc. The other option was to introduce a third sprite in between the character sprites that represented contact The third sprite usually took the form of some kind of colored fireball, cloud, or explosion. These were necessary to create the excitement that one sprite had just kicked the other,. or one sprite had just did a super move on the other sprite. At the time there was no other practical way to communicate damage or martial arts prowess. So Fireballs and Explosions are necessary artifacts of 2D fighting games because the clashing character models were nothing more than 2D sprites, with no ability to bend, fold, twist, contort, grimace etc. The more dramatic the contact the more exaggerated the fireball, spark,explosion, cloud, or pyrotechnics that was displayed between the two fighting sprites.

In early 90's Virtua Fighter changed that reality by introducing 3D character models, and one of the first hit physics approaches in 3D graphics. Tekken followed suit, as did DOA. BUT the hit physics made Fireballs and Explosions, Clouds, Sparks, and other atmospheric disruptions between 2 fighting characters unnecessary. Sadly, the problem was Fireballs and Sparks, were now standard fare for arcade hits like Street Fighter and other 2D fighters of the time. Its what customers had come to expect out of a fighting game. Before the introduction of Virtua Fighter and 3D character models and hit physics, that was just how things were.

So whereas the Virtua Fighter series and DOA series took complete advantage of 3D character models, that could bend, fold, twist, lay down,grimace, and otherwise show simulated pain , beat downs, and brutal contact, The Tekken series chose to bring 2D Sprite contact indicators into a 3D environment in hopes of making their game more popular than Sega's Virtua Fighter. By giving the FGC a somewhat look and feel of a 2D fighter (i.e. Street Fighter) with 3D character models and game play. Did it work?

If you look at today's landscape of 2D fighting games you see examples of semi 3D presentations with 2D game play (Mortal Kombat comes to mind). Tekken and to a lesser extent Soul Calibur choose to have 2D presentations but with 3D game play. That is Tekken (especially Tekken 7) looks like a 2D fighter, but it has 3d mechanics Both Tekken and Soul Calibur continue the tradition of Explosions, Fireballs, Clouds, Sparks, etc to communicate the intensity of the contact between the two characters on the screen. But true 3D graphics programming makes these shenanigans obsolete

Note: Virtua Fighter communicates and conveys , damage, pain, and brutality with hit physics and proper animation and are all demonstrated and communicated without the need for the on screen pyrotechnics. So instead of Tekken pushing the envelope with new 3D graphics animation approaches to communicate that kick to the kidney, or head-spinning-neck-breaking round house kick, Harada and company choose the cheesy way out (Explosions, Fireballs, Sparks,Clouds). The 2D fighting game community loves this !@#$

The fact that Virtua Fighter does not include these leftovers from 2D sprite programming, and for the most part neither does DOA demonstrates their technical fighting game presentation superiority.

If you've ever watched EA's UFC mixed martial arts games, it is very clear that pain, havoc, physical discomfort, brutality can all be profoundly communicated without the need for or crutch of:

• Sparks
• Explosions
• Clouds
• Fireballs
• Whirlwinds
• Meters
• etc.

I hope the next Virtua Fighter leads the way once again with how to properly and successfully, animate and present 3D combat in a fun, believable, and beautiful fashion. Virtua Fighter's elegance still has not been matched by this current gen of 3D fighters, although DOA comes in a very close 2nd.

Harada, Tekken, Soul Calibur shame on you for bringing the handicaps of 2D sprite contact programming into the 3D world of fighting games. Shame on you for copying the meter concept from 2D fighting games. Shame on you for giving us a 2D presentation that obscures the power and beauty of 3D combat graphics programming, modeling, mocap and simulation. Instead of helping to move fighting games into a bigger better future, Tekken and to a lesser extent Soul Calibur are smothering fighting games by tying this gen's 3D fighters to the limitations of 2D Sprite Graphical Programming and 2D-Spice-it-up-meters-its-getting-old gimmicks
.

 

What?

 

Yes, although Tekken is technically a 3D fighter, its visual presentation is now basically the same as a 2D fighter. It uses the same sparks, explosions, fireballs, whirlwinds, clouds, etc. It now has meters and meter based animations like garden variety 2D fighters. It features 2D fighter characters and character styles. It has 3D fighting movement, but in many ways its just a glorified 2D fighter. If you're a fan of 2D fighters, e.g. street fighter, KOF, Blazeblue, MK, etc., you would have no problem with Tekken 7. But contrast Tekken 7 and Soul Calibur with the visual presentation VF goes for:

http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/sega-am2-vf5r-interview-oct08-p3.asp

VF has a true 3D visual presentation. Tekken is a 2D fighter masquerading as a 3D fighter. I suspect that if there is a Tekken 8 it will completely come out of the closet as the 2D fighter it really is

Its 2020 the 3D fighting games need to leave the nostalgia of 2D sprite animations , sparks, explosions, fireballs, 2D meters, and make innovations in 3D computer graphic modeling, sound affects, and hit physics. If 3D fighting games ever want to grow beyond the limits of the 2D fighting crowd they need to abandon all that 2D shit from the late 80's and early 90's

 

This is an interesting comment.

Because during my Tekken playing days and after, I've heard many Tekken fans for years, saying that tekken is a 2d fighting game, and that they were proud of it being more 2d than 3d. While interestingly, other Tekken fans have argued, that tekken is not the usual 2D fighting game, but in fact, it is a 2.5D fighting game, like Street Fighter 4. And other Tekken fans, weren't happy hearing Tekken being compared to a street fighter game, especially SF4.

I've heard of the term, 2.5D fighting game for a long time, and understood what it meant. But calling Tekken a 2.5D fighting game........Wow! That is an interesting way to put it.

 

Then there was the third option: the creation of animations representing a character having been hit... the same technique used in 3D fighting games today.

 

A "2.5D" fighter... people will say anything to trash Tekken on this site. 2.5D either refers to an art style or gameplay in which one is restricted to a 2D plane with limited interaction with 3D space, for example a platformer where a character could jump into the foreground or background. In Tekken you can move all the way around your opponent, and move anywhere in the arena. It's a 3D fighting game.

 

Earlier Tekken games definitely had more.limited movement than later games hence why some people lable the initial ones as 2.5D. later games.have more movement and are def 3D.

I certainly don't hate Tekken and in fact I used to play it tons, but the I joined VF after the first time I tried it with VF4. I don't think you can blame me.

I am happy for Tekken success. In fact, it's success is important to creat a market for more VFs and both series can exist and flourish alongside each others.

 

Yea, I think memory constrained the third option. I would have to go back to the days of sprite programming and pull out my technical programming books to see exactly why they just didn't make, folding, twisting, crunching sprites. I think there were limitations though. And that the spark, or explosion was simply easier, and faster.

I'm not simply trying to trash Tekken. I was playing Tekken before VF. I got introduced to VF on the PS2 with VF4 but prior to that, I played MK, and Tekken. They are both great franchises. But once I was exposed to VF4 , Tekken and MK didn't stand a chance. In fact 2D fighting games forever took a back seat for me. Tekken at least use to flirt with the idea of being a legitimate 3D fighter. Tekken 3, Tekken 4. But the cat is out of the bag now. Tekken 7 has 3D game movement, but it has totally succumbed to 2D presentation techniques and meters. In some ways they are out street fighter-ing Street Fighter.

They are successful though have surpassed 4 million in sales. But it could be much more. For example, The THQ UFC 3D martial arts games surpassed 14 million copies sold. EA's MMA 3D MMA games also have surpassed 5 milion in sales. Def Jam 3D fighters sold more than Tekken 7.

The reality is 2D fighters have a loyal audience, but the potential market for 3D fighters is much much bigger. Sega does a horrible job of marketing, or VF would obliterate all things 2D. Look at sales for Sleeping Dogs (which was just a open world martial arts story mode) millions of copies sold.



or Def Jam




In order for fighting games to really go to the next level (I mean 10 million+ sales) per release the fighting game developers have to drop the nostalgic nods to 2D game mechanics(sparks, fireballs, explosions, whirlwinds,clouds, meters,etc) and adopt 21rst century 3D modeling possibilities and physics

 

But what if developers don't want to make their games realistic?
Most fighting game embrace magic elements a lot and incorporate those elements in both their storytelling and gameplay, Virtua Fighter is a rare case where the developers tried to take a bit more of inspiration from reality and it seems not many people are into realism at least when it comes to fighting games, the casual player might be into realism but only if it's done to a extreme degree like the UFC games basically to the point of having a "sports game" type of fighter.
VF's realism seems a little half-baked at least in my opinion, there are realistic martial arts moves but the game still has these unrealistic juggles (yeah, many would say BUT THAT'S NOT VF AT THAT POINT) then why would many franchises have to reinvent many aspects of their presentation and maybe gameplay just to be more realistic?
I didn't see VF making efforts to become more realistic just to appeal to casual players who would buy it as a sports game. (personally i wouldn't mind that tho)

 

Very valid point. And lots of the kung fu movies (Zu Warriors comes to mind) had magic and fireballs. So there is nothing wrong with martial arts fantasy. And the game developers and FGC can play whatever they choose. I'm really only giving my own personal preference. I play martial arts fantasy sometimes, but I prefer fighting games that project realism, and plausibility. Kungfu Hustle was over the top very fun to watch, but Ip man, fearless were more plausible.

But to the point of this post, Tekken wants to appeal to the 2D fighter crowd, so it has given Tekken more and more of a 2D presentation from the guest characters, new characters (e.g. gigas), old character redesigns (e.g. Yoshimitsu), the more muscular body types of even the smaller characters, the meters, to the sparks, explosions, whirlwinds, clouds, fireballs,etc.
Tekken has 3D movement but that's about it, the rest it has a 2D look and feel. They simply migrated 2D Sprite contact physics and environmental look in feel into 3D space.

They took the concept of 3D space and movement from Virtua Fighter and brought it back to the 2D FGC.

That's why Tekken is no Virtua Fighter Yu Suzuki was actually trying to do something totally new with VF. He was actually trying to and succeeded in introducing a new fighting game genre. Tekken only serves to give 2D fighting games a new coat of paint.

Tekken represents the Zenith of 2D fighting games where as Virtua Fighter represents the true beginning of 3D combat simulators such as UFC, FFNY, etc.

The market for fun 3D combat simulators is 10 times larger than the 2D fighting market. The best 2D fighter might sell 1 or 2 million units in the first year. The best 3D combat simulator sells 1 or 2 million units in the first month.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with martial arts fantasy (e.g. Tekken, KOF, MK, Blazeblue, SF, etc) as long as we call it for what it is, and realize Virtua Fighter is really not in the same category at all. Virtua Fighter is really much more like an Arcade version of a martial art combat simulator and is not trying to achieve martial arts fantasy.

Virtua Fighter is aiming for plausibility and realism. Tekken is aim for martial arts fantasy.

VF = Martial Arts Fiction and Tekken = Martial Arts Fantasy

Although all of the movement in VF is not real, most of it could be. Tekken 7's presentation leans to the fantasy side most time, not even trying to be plausible.

 

Yeah the VF promotion should definitely focus on the authenticity and the refinement of its world since all the other franchises gave up. Kengo and Konami's Fighting Bujutsu were among the last to follow the Sega AM2's way of depiction.

Maybe strengthen the encyclopedia aspect by adding an informative text in VF6 about each martial art like Gran Turismo usually does with brands and cars.

Although VF is not intended to be fully realistic, I would also like a step forward in terms of animation. Could the juggle be animated without making the character flying so much?

Same for the guard. I think there's room to fully animate the blocking like Shenmue 2 although the guard system is widely different in this game. It's highly satisfying and would be an eye catcher for newcomers and casuals.

 

Yeah, that is a really good idea. I hope they do that with VF6.

 

Tekken seems to be trying to hint out a Tekken x Street Fighter in the works. Hence all the 2D characters and hit sparks. Even Fahkumram is an influence to Street Fighter's Sagat. People been wanting that Tekken crossover game since SFxT. You cant blame them for "looking like a 2D fighter".

 

Yeah. That tekken x street fighter game, has been in development, for a very long time. Way too long.

 

Its all good, i'm sure the Tekken crowd will be happy. Let them have the cartoon, 2D market.

But VF, DOA should really go in the opposite direction, (more fun realism) they should drop all the launchers, juggles, floaters, go with staggers, stumbles, and stuns, and come up with new ways to do things in 3D. Take some hints from the UFC animations and physics.

 

Juggling that doesn't make the characters not fly too much?..... What about making all characters as heavy as 5FS Taka and animate them in a similar way like this:

Animating the blocking like Shenmue II? you call those BLOCK? Those are called PARRY.
I don't think Virtua Fighter's current rock, paper, scissors system would fit very well with parries if anything that would give advantage to the player who does the parry 100% of the time, although it would be interesting to see parries implemented into VF in some way as long as they don't replace guarding and aren't too overpowered or too useless.
the closest to those parry animations from Shenmue I and II are Virtua Fighter 3's Guard animations for circular and semi-circular moves like when a sweep gets blocked and the leg of the attacker gets stuck giving and advantage to the defender along with a good visual cue, yeah VF5FS has some of those animations too but not to the extend of Virtua Fighter 3/tb

 

For juggles/launchers I discovered an alternative - they would be partially dizzy mechanics caused by a blow to the head; the player would be able to recover timely though (much like they do from a juggle). Also some of the launchers should make the person slow/still reactive instead of just being passive temporarily.

Although under this system knockdowns could become rare unless a new system of downing/downed gameplay is created.

Edit: also a punch to the kidney should be able to cause the same juggle/launcher.

 

I will admit, I was never a fan of juggling, in any 3d fighting game, especially in Virtua Fighter. But in Tekken it makes sense, since that is more of an arcadey, over the top, exaggerated, style fighting game. But both Virtua Fighter and Mortal Kombat 1 and 2, kinda started the whole juggling thing. And to a certain extent, even classic old school SF2 World Warrior, and SF2 Championship Edition partially had it as well. So as a piece of history, I think juggling should stay in Virtua Fighter. Provided that it doesn't get more, extra over the top.

 

I love MK juggling. MK9/X were crazy with juggling. 11 toned it down a bit but it still is as fun.

I think VF got a good degree of it. I agree they shouldn't push it