Some fun setups against rising attacks.

Obviously, since you can vary up the timing with which you get up and since the timing changes for side-roll and stand-in-place rising attacks, this isn't a one-size fits all solution and you can get punished hard for guessing wrong. These are just options like any other options, and are best used when your opponent gets predictable.


1) With proper timing, + can counter-hit both low and mid rising attacks. (To find this timing and get a visual, try setting the dummy to fastest rise, , crouch dash x2, tiny delay, +). This also goes for HT Oushin , for instance, after a + or +, but that's really unreliable against side-rolls because you end up off-axis. Option 2 is better in situations like that.

(Note: this timing gets really hard. I was testing on some other characters and just couldn't get it; started to think it might be character-specific, but I went back to my first dummy - Kage - and struggled some more despite having it pretty well down earlier. Side-roll rises seem easier to mule kick for some reason.)

Oushin by itself is low enough to get under standard mid rise attacks, which guarantees a free OUS throw if you're in range for big combo damage. + combos are guaranteed from legs-toward, any launcher from head-toward. Oushin does get tagged by low rising, of course, so this is just a gimmick. It's better to mule kick if you're comfortable with timing, or ...

2) An easier option from HT Oushin is ++, . The timing is very forgiving, and if you tag a rising attack, you'll get a stomach crumple. If they rise and block, you get a stagger. If they rise and sidestep, you may have a problem. This is pretty good about hitting side-roll rising too, but it doesn't tend to have enough range for backroll. This is best for somebody who wants to punish you with a low rising when they see that you've knocked them down into Oushin. That's perfect, because if you punish them and they get scared into rising into defense, you have a pretty solid mix-up between and throw, or frame-traps with + into handstand.

3) With proper timing (harder against full-circular rises than half, because those will auto-correct if you go over at the wrong time) you can go over a rising attack into Oushin using , + (head-towards if you get over) or + (legs-towards if you get over). HT OUS Throw is guaranteed with proper timing against both types of rising attack, which is weird. I guess low rising attacks recover standing before you can crouch again. To practice this, try setting the dummy to fastest rising speed. , ++, +->OUS. This gets really tricky to time if people vary up their rise timing with rolls or whatever, so be careful.

 

ooo, nice.
definitely gonna try that out

 

Some other simple stuff:

6K+G can beat most low rising attacks.

2K can go under most mid rising attacks.

K+G can beat lows, but not as reliably as you'd think it would. Timing can be a bit tight.

I don't really recommend any of these unless you know what's coming, because they're not really any less risky than the flashier stuff, and they don't give you the big payoff. 6K+G at least has the benefit that it's fairly reliable against lows and pretty forgiving in terms of timing.

 

Nice write-up, some good options here.

Another point to remember (though the timing is quite tight and requires practice) is that moves that do 21 damage points or more will stuff a rising attack, mid or low, as long as both attacks connect at the same time.

The old trick from the previous VF tutorial was to use +, which would beat out both low and mid rising attacks as long as you got the timing right (though might need to check if this is still the case, as the VFDC command list has the damage now at 19 points). You can also do a similar move when already in Choukarou, with beating rising attacks and being a faster execution too. Of course in Choukarou if you get hit by the rising attack, you will also be knocked down.

Looking at the command list, ++ and would both have the same potential to stuff mid rising attacks (if your timing is good), as well as naturally beating low rising attacks (if your timing is out).

With careful spacing (or a well timed backdash) you can let a rising attack whiff and hit the opponent whilst they are still recovering with moves like , , , ++ ... - Shun has lots of moves with good range. Hitting with a well timed/spaced ++ in this way is also lots of fun.

Against a mid rising attack, I've used + - It's got massive range, if you space correctly you're free to bust it out at almost the same time as the rising attack - The rising attack will whiff and your kick will hit having a longer range. It's a nice one to use near a wall, loses to low rising attacks of course.

 

Y'know, I completely forgot about that. I feel like that might make + a really good option, since it offers the choice between drinks or a combo with the follow-up. Plus, it looks like it ought to have a bunch of active frames to make the counter easier. Definitely something to try.

I did test out + as one of the things that was likely to beat low rising, but it seems a little less consistent for even that if your timing isn't perfect. For whatever reason, mule kick seemed easier. I'll definitely play around more, though, as I like the cartwheel combos better.

In general, I feel like if you're trying to beat a rising attack, you may as well go big with a combo starter. That's why I'm not really keen on beating a mid rising with a 2K, for instance. Why take the risk of guessing wrong and eating the (admittedly small) damage from a low rising attack if you're not gonna get the big reward for guessing right anyway?

 

Yeah pretty much. If you guess the wrong rising attack (or mis-time it) you're going to get counter-hit anyway, so may as well go for the big damage.

On another note if your opponent has a sliver of health left + is so nice at ducking under so many things (including elbows in some cases), but as an attack generally it's pretty rubbish frame wise, even a counter-hit will put you at -5. Good for interrupting your opponent if you're at a disadvantage.

 

nice discussion, thanks for the topic. im going to try and work on this a bit.

one thing that i seem to pull out of my ass against a rising opponent that seems to work well is .

though im not sure if its against a rising attack or not. sorry for being vague. maybe someone more knowledgeable than i am can explain what situations this move might work well.

 

For (also done by ), the advantage of this move is long range and combo on counter hit.

Against rising attacks, you can sit just outside the range of a rising attack, wait for it to whiff, then use to hit whilst they are recovering. However as you are hitting your opponent in recovery, you wont gain a counter hit and a combo, only some small damage.

If your opponent is getting up from the ground or techrolling, it's not a bad move to use if you want to keep pressure on the opponent. If they crouch you will get a hit and frame advantage, if they try to attack as soon as they get up (eg they try to interrupt you with a ) then you get a counter-hit for the combo. Sometimes it can surprise people too because of the range, they might think if they are far away they have enough time to bust out some attacks after their techroll.

If you want to hit your opponent after a rising attack whiffs, a move that combos on a normal hit is best. Chouwan () is fast and will float for a combo on normal hit, you'll need 6 DP to use it however. Aside: Backdashing away from short range attacks (causing your opponent to whiff) then following with a Chouwan is awesome, awesome, awesome - Any hit will net you a combo. The same principal applies to rising attacks.

 

Been testing out some moves in training mode.

I retract what I said about + beating low rising attacks, I thought I had done it before, but if it does work it's not at all consistent. Shun doesn't seem to 'jump over' low attacks with this move despite the animation looking like he might. I think I had previously got it to work by inputting it late at a long range, netting a recovery hit rather than the move actually avoiding the low rising attack. There was also some weirdness where after knocking the opponent down, if I rapidly forward-dashed whilst the rising attack was coming out I was sometimes able to beat it, not because of + stuffing the rising attack (which would give a yellow counter hit), but instead it gave a recovery counter hit. Think this might just be an alignment thing.

Mule Kick (+) seems like it has huge priority over rising attacks now, even mids. Was able to bust these out no sweat, really powerful.

Also another interesting point that came up during testing - Shun gets a damage bonus for every drink. Both Chouwan and are only 20 dmg points and normally cannot stuff a rising attack. However get up to 7 DP and they both become 21 dmg points, making them usable Chouwan is such a nice move anyway, to be able to stuff rising attacks with it too is grand.

 

Ha. Gotta try that. I love my little uppercut.

Something that's made me reevaluate + a bit is that I managed a few times to use it on reaction to a low rising animation after blocking in preparation for the mid, for free damage. It seems like the scorpion kick's jump frames start very early. My reactions aren't that good, so if I can do it, it seems legit.

 

Some really great stuff in this thread, can't wait to get into training mode and start practicing! As for me, I've gotten great damage in certain situations by using +-OUS when the opponent is close to a wall. The timing is strict, but if you can get it you'll have a wall splat and a pretty nice combo, especially if you have 10+ drinks. A warning though, the move spreads Shun's hitbox wide open, so it'll be very easy for your opponent to hit you out of your attack, even if you're just out of range, if you mis-time this move.

Once I do some practicing of my own I look forward to contributing more. Keep up the great stuff you guys!

 

66k's active frames are farely short (2 frames), so while it can work, that's some mighty tight timing.

 

In my experimenting with Shun, I've found that + beats both mid and low rising attacks, and is not all that hard to time, either. It also creates a lot of distance between you and the opponent, which let's you drink, or cancel to Choukarou and attempt the mid/low mixup from Chou ++, (8 dp required for second hit) or Chou ++, (fully circular low sweep).

I usually go for this after throws which leave you with decent recovery and close to the opponent, such as + and +. It can work after + too, but the timing is harder.

Another nice setup I like for rising attacks is too space yourself so as to make a rising kick miss you as you start / ++, and then press + from there. You get a recovery counter, and you can combo from the head crumple (I usually just do +, +,). This too, works nicely after +, amongst others. It also does pretty gnarly damage.