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Properties of Shippuujin stance

Discussion in 'Kage' started by Dan, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Dan

    Dan Well-Known Member

    Hey guys, got a couple of questions regarding shippunjin stance.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - this move is a fast linear mid, however I heard it has the property to beat high punch/low punch. Not sure so I tested it when playing Plague and so far I never got hit by a low or high punch so long as I entered shippujin from a good set up. This move is only -6 on block so fuzzy guarding with crouch dash is possible, so nice!

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - I'm guessing you use this move to catch people evading to Kage's stomach. It's kind of slow but it gives you a better combo/crumple than the above. Does it have evasive properties too like going under highs?

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - can you hit confirm this for a combo? I also assume this goes under highs, but what about elbows and high mids?

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - is anything guaranteed after the stagger on hit? Also does it go over anything like low punches and what not?

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - also is anything guaranteed after this guard breaks? I assume you can plug in any head crumple combo after it hits normal/MC?
     
    Dan, Nov 15, 2007
    #1
  2. Oioron

    Oioron Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - doesn't have evading properties but it has better damage like you mentioned and it also has better range. It doesn't push anymore so the opponent can properly apply nitaku now. ETEG is advisable when guarded.

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - this can be hit-confirmed/check. It loses to 2P and some elbows, sidekicks, depending on distance and disadvantage. I think it also happens in closed stance. I remember I was having a dojo session with GoatCheese and I was in open right next to him and Sarah's flip-kick whifffffsss!!!!/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

    As far as I know there aren't anything guaranteed after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif staggers, that's why I hardly use them. I'll test them out later and get back to you.
     
    Oioron, Nov 15, 2007
    #2
  3. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    OMG, WHY ARE NINJAS SO BROKEN?!?!
     
    Sebo, Nov 15, 2007
    #3
  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    During the execution, Kage bobs his head slightly causing high attacks to whiff. Against HP it usually works better in closed stance than open, but depending on the adv/dis it can work in both.

    Unless you have some (reasonable) advantage, you'll never beat a mid or low punch. Basically, if Kage is entering Shippuujin on disadvantage, then mids or LP are your best bet. Don't High Punch!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - can you hit confirm this for a combo? I also assume this goes under highs, but what about elbows and high mids?</div></div>While you can hit check it, you can't exactly super delay it. You have to be on point to hit check this consistently IMO. And yes it's a true low in the sense that it goes under high attacks, but doesn't avoid mids. There are probably some exceptional cases (as noted by Oioron) where some mids that lack forward range might miss Kage due to his body position, but it doesn't have any built-in evasive property (above and beyond High evasion) that I'm aware of.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - is anything guaranteed after the stagger on hit? Also does it go over anything like low punches and what not?</div></div>
    Against fast strugglers, nothing guaranteed, otherwise you can usually squeeze a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in. No evasive properties either. It's best use as a long range attack to close the gap when you have lots of advantage (say after a knockdown).

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - also is anything guaranteed after this guard breaks? I assume you can plug in any head crumple combo after it hits normal/MC?</div></div>
    Same as above regarding stagger followups. Yes, any head crumple combo can follow (as shown on the Kage Black Book Combo wiki page).

    BTW, it's shippuujin, not shippu<u>n</u>jin. I've corrected the thread title just to make those searches in years from now pick up this wealth of information. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
     
    Myke, Nov 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Dan

    Dan Well-Known Member

    One thing I noticed with Shippuujin is that while your are in the stance and you do nothing, low punch will wiff. It's really weird sometimes I enter it, wait then do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to punish the low punch.

    Also I guess every Kage player already knows but entering Shipuujin stance to cause a wake up kick to whiff for the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is sooo good! Scary stuff!
     
    Dan, Nov 18, 2007
    #5
  6. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Actually, if the characters are close enough and in open stance, LP can hit (for those characters that LP with their leading hand). But I know that's splitting hairs. Many characters with low posture stances have the same effect against certain attacks.

    "Do nothing" while you're in a stance is very risky. It's a high risk, high return tactic to defeat a low risk response (the LP).

    While you have to be on your toes to anticipate a whiffed LP to hit it during recovery, "do nothing" also loses, very badly, to just about everything else.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also I guess every Kage player already knows but entering Shipuujin stance to cause a wake up kick to whiff for the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is sooo good! Scary stuff! </div></div>
    To do this effectively, Kage needs to enter stance pretty much as soon as the character has hit the ground. He also needs to space himself carefully, and be mindful of how the opponent rises, whether in place, to the side, back (these all affect their distance from Kage).

    In other words, you can't exactly bait someone while you're in hitting range at the very last second. The early preparation needed should be warning enough to any thinking player not to attempt a rising attack if he's hovering just out of range.

    It's only as scary as you allow it to be! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
     
    Myke, Nov 20, 2007
    #6
  7. Oioron

    Oioron Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    Like Myke said, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif from shippuujin to punish rising requires preparation and some lackadaisical mindset for your opponent. It's one of Kage's tricks that should be used sparingly to be more effective.

    Also, from experience just staying in stance doing nothing is indeed very risky. I've eaten so many knee combos from adamYUKI's Jeffry, and I think I've learned my lesson /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif
     
    Oioron, Nov 20, 2007
    #7
  8. Dan

    Dan Well-Known Member

    Hmmm I see what you mean, it was just an observation of mine. Though it might be interesting to try now and then hahahaha! Unsafe style! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

    I guess I'll just try to save the tactic for when I can 100% tell I enter stance in the open stance.

    One thing that I have been doing that seems to work really well versus low punch abare is using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to shippuujin and then using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif immediately. I seem to get the low punch to whiff almost 50-70% of the time, I'm guessing this has to do with the open/closed stance when I enter it, how about you guys?
     
    Dan, Nov 20, 2007
    #8
  9. Oioron

    Oioron Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif works best at interrupting /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in Open Stance. Also you can try to do it again if they fail to stagger for a floater.

    Back dash into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif works well at beating /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif too.
     
    Oioron, Nov 20, 2007
    #9

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