Option Select and YOU!

Option select is one of the most important parts of Virtuafighter. Unless you decide to play a complete linear offensive game, you need to practice your option select.

Various moves in the game give +/- frame advantage in the game. Those moves that give (-) frame advantage are generally moves where option select comes into play. If you were to look at the ENTIRE moves list of VF4 EVO or FT you'd find that there is a large amount of moves that give (-) frame advantage and very few moves in comparison that give (+) frame advantage. It is this reason why a player should concentrate a good deal of his/her time on option select. Keep in mind that DTEG is the most common form of option select. I'll go over a few common scenarios where the common DTEG(Double Throw Escape Guard) may not be your best option.


--A move with -8_-10 frame disadvantage. Throws execute in 8 frames so unless you are doing + throw a move that leaves you at -8 doesn't garauntee anything other than a + throw unless the opponent is buffering his/her multi directional throw input. It is in this case at -8_-10 that ATEG becomes a very viable option.

example. Jacky's + -9 frame disadvantage.
Option select: or and a + throw escape. This will beat any large multi directional throws with a lp and break the garaunteed + throw and also not allow anyone to delay attacks banking on you dodging. I'll add more but it's very late.

Soo many players concentrate on frames and attacks in the NAVF scene and spend little time really focusing on their options after attacking.

 

great thread, this is exactly what i feel is missing every time i dont play the game for a while~ infact, lack of option select is what made me completey useless in saturday's UK league /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

great stuff, i might post some wolf (or goh) info on option select, seeing as i had been training this along with defense techniques~. and against random / abare opponents, it's essential~!

 

wait a sec, jacky could stay back turned after 66 K, right? what are the options if that's case?

 

Backturned can stuff some attacks, but you're suspect to being thrown or countered if you delay anything.

Edit: Just to elaborate further... you can also use + to avoid highs, but you need to watch out for mid attacks.

 

The whole idea is that jacky's 66K puts him at -8 (and is thus throw counterable), but 66K~4 is -7, so if the opponent goes for the throw, P will win.

 

There was a really long thread about option select unintendedly a while ago. I think it popped up during a discussion of how valuable was certain defensive techs. I can't remember exactly which thread it was in, but I remember many people like BK and me all chimed in on the discussion. Maybe someone else can remember it?

 

Sorry, but is -6, not -7 and is -10

 

sorry, but the only thing that really concerns me is the fact that one is throw counterable, and one is not.

actually, what are the significant differences between +8 and +10?

 

Thats fine vanity. you were wrong, i was right. no big deal ok? the concept doesn't change, but when you talk specifics you need to be precise not "in the ballpark".

 

+ is fast

The difference between -8 and -10 is two frames. if something is -10, it might be easier to buffer multi-directional throws in time to beat an ATEG. But i assure you, if something is -8 and you suprise someone with that move, them buffering a multi-directional throw in time to beat an ATEG is VERY unlikely.

+ is -6, if you were to punch after that attack you run the risk of getting countered.

 

About, being countered after 66k4:

Yes you would be countered by fast attacks, but turn knuckle p is a 9 frame punch. Your disadvantage isn't that severe and you could stop slow floating attacks.

I think we're on the same page here and I don't mean to butt in on a great thread idea, but lets make sure I'm understood well.

So bottom line:

66k4 is a suprising attack in evo and when defended cannot be countered by slow executing attacks, (when using turn knuckle p) so that means you can't beatknuckle me, knee me, groin kick me, etc. basically anything over 15 frames. I'll get hit by moves that have evasive or defensive properties, fast mids, and I'll eat low attacks. Sounds shitty? not quite: "66k4 is fast" indeed. If your opponent didn't read you properly you may be able to get away with more given the reflexes of your opponent.

 

By "multi-directional" you mean something that requires more than one tap right? Because I think most people can +, +, +, +, + on a -8 situation in time.

And since is -10....

The key to making work is to alternate between the normal and BT version so opponents are always on their toes about whether Jacky is throw-counterable or not. Once that doubt is in place then you can play reverse nitaku games.

 

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between -8 and -10 is two frames. if something is -10, it might be easier to buffer multi-directional throws in time to beat an ATEG

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, it's simple really~

-10 you can DTEG

- 8 you can not, (mabye TEG)

DTEG is very useful because it stops opponents from atack delay, or hitting you inside throw whiff. at -8, it's a different situation. usually unless the opponent is very fast, they'll react too late anyway, sometimes you can attack back if you guess right.

but i guess option select will solidify these areas.

 

Just when I think I've learned enough to communicate.

DTEG = <u>D</u>ouble <u>T</u>hrow-<u>E</u>scape-<u>G</u>uard
ETEG = <u>E</u>vading <u>T</u>hrow-<u>E</u>scape-<u>G</u>uard

So, what does "ATEG" mean?

 

Attack throw escape guard

/KiwE

 

I thought of that, but I told myself that it could not be possible to attack, and throw escape, and guard in the same window.

Could someone please tell me (or direct me to somewhere I could learn how) to do that.

 

Well, since at -8, you can be thrown by a buffer throw, but let say the opponent does a two command throw or tries a delayed attack. If you buffer in a throw escape, and attack afterwards, you effectively guarded against 1 possible throw, and attacks to try to beat those other attack options. The command is to input attack and then throw escape.

The key here is that alot of more advanced players expect TEG or ETEG in a throw guaranteed situation. So they are going for a delayed attack to beat the possible evade. Since they are giving up the -8 advantage, Attack throw escape allows to you exploit that delay, but at the same time avoid a possible 8 frame throw.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Srider said:

If you buffer in a throw escape, and attack afterwards, you effectively guarded against 1 possible throw, and attacks to try to beat those other attack options. The command is to input attack and then throw escape. (emphasis mine)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am confused by this part. If I understand you correctly, in order to ATEG from an 8 frame disadvantage, I should enter an attack first, then do a Throw Escape. Wouldn't the attack command cause me to eat the throw if my opponent uses perfect timing?

 

The idea here is to buffer an attack, but you input a throw escape at the end of the recovery. If the opponent throws, yeah it will interrupt the attack, but this is exactly why you input the throw escape after the attack. So you are essentially escaping the throw the moment it connects. Also, you do not enter Guard at the end of the sequence. There is no point in doing so.

 

also you don't have to use p or lp in ate. the benefit of doing so is that you'll beat slower attacks (full circulars...delayed launchers) aimed at your dodge...the benefit from using something bigger *cough* knee *cough* is that you'll get the reverse nitaku effect vs their ill timed throw while breaking a well timed throw or two. Takes yomi and balls you roll about in a wheelbarrow. The first time I played adamYUKI he did this to me. Rodney explained. Scary.