need defense help!!!!

I have a few questions on defense, any answers would be welcome. How do u break vanessa's ground and pound/armbar? When wolf does running grapple and slides to back, can u counter the resulting throws and how? What do u press to counter wolf's evad counter? I am being killed by ground attacks. When i tech roll i am hit and staggered, when i don't i get hit by ground attacks. I seem to have particular trouble with not being able to avoid jeffrys big attack, lau's stomp, and kage goofy leg drope move. Are these harder than others to block, or is it a coincidence. I even went dojo lau vs. lau, and the computer on fastest recoveries, tech rolls, etc, cannot avoid the stomp after most throws. Any help please? Thanks guys.

 

Hey there.

Check out the command lists for the characters you mention. The escapes are in there.

 

Only thing I can think of worth mentioning is if you tech in place you can block down attacks

 

Not all of this is in the movelists although the throw escape commands are - mostly.

Vanessa mount position:

punch to face = blocked with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
big punch to face (ends mount) = blocked with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
punch to stomach = blocked with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
Armlock (ends mount) = escaped with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

She can do maximum of three attacks until mount ends automatically, unless she does one of the two options above that end it right away. The tackle itself is inescapable, but you can crouch when you see it coming so it doesnt hit.

edit: and since it wasnt asked but you are likely to experience it, her huge jumping roundhouse where she yells "take that" and breaks guard, DUCK IT

Wolf

Same goes for Wolf /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (wolf backs up a bit then rushes forward and grabs you) you can duck it and punish.

wolf optionthrows and throw escape commands (same command) after he has gone behind you:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
You just have to guess which one Wolf is going for and then spam the command basically. It helps if you learn to recognize them in dojo yourself.

if wolf grabs you similarly but from the front, the escapes are:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (the change to back)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (push)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Wolfs evade attack comes out as a different throw depending from where he grabs you (left/right/front/back):
back throw is inescapapable and I think front throw is too (someone else clarify this)

the resulting sidethrow is escaped with either
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif depending from which side he goes. (you have to know your own stance to recognize it. You can do doublethrowescape for this if you can.

Possibly easiest way to deal with the evadethrow is to bait him do it and then just duck and punish.

Techroll
A rule of thumb: if you are hit with a STUN
(your character holds its stomach and slowly falls to ground, OR is hit to the head and wobbly falls to ground)
and opponent hits you - NEVER EVER TECHROLL in this position. Do a quick rise on spot with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. This situation is the prime weapon of all those who do techrolltraps. As long as you dont techroll in this situation, you are 99% safe from backstaggers. Never techroll after a stun.

ground attacks
Im not entirely sure what you are asking here, but some ground attacks are guaranteed, and some may require you to roll in a certain direction on the ground in order to avoid the big ground attacks. However, this is very much situation and characterdependant. Its not possible for me to remember and list all situations here, so try to experiment. Experiment with rolling either straight back or sideways. You can also rise faster by inputting extra commands, like rotating or wiggling the stick first, then hold in in the direction you wanna go and hold G.

 

I know my friends have escaped the WOLF's DM P+K throw from the front. Unfortunately I don't know the command, as I was always the one throwing, not escaping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

EDIT: I checked, the escape for WOLF's DM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif when it's from the front, when it's to the side escape like a side throw.

 

If you can see her "take that" easily enough to duck it, why not just throw a combo on her. Specifically with lei fei, ppp then give her a moment to descend a little on her fall (she's pretty hight up in the air) and then hit her with another pp (probably something stronger you could follow up with maybe switch to doku and go kk). But then i suppose duck might be good b/c you can just duck at that distance and not risk counter hits if you're wrong. but eitherway.

 

smb_is_me....that's not an answer to ANY of the questions asked, lol /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

It's more of a "how to punish Vanessa's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif"
And might I add that the advice is actually quite solid. It's easier to duck, but with good timing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif does some good job as well as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif doku /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

manjimaru, thank u very much. Awesome stuff. That is the kinda reply that makes me love this site so much. Look forward to trying these.

 

hey grieves, it was in response to part of manimaru's post.

 

Note on the Vanessa mount, you can hold down G, 2G or P+G to escape, you don't have to time it. This shit murdered me until I figured out that you could hold the button down.

 

Lol how come no one told me about this? I was jamming like a mo-fo

 

Yes, holding the buttons is the only way to go. Holding just G will break many a tackle throw. I feel like Vanessa players want to land the full three attacks on you and usually will punch twice and then armlock for the third hit 99.9% of the time.

Holding G will break the face punches, if they go with stomach punches it's still a pretty good chance they're gonna try to finish with the armlock so then just hold P+G.

I have been breaking this throw a lot lately just holding G alone. As soon as they switch to gut punches I'm holding 2G. You can also straight up break the throw if they do the DMPK version. It's the same as a side throw, 4 or 6 P+G. I did that 2 days ago by accident but I had a feeling it was possible. The entries off of Vanessa's strings may not work the same way because they are catch throws or something.

I thought there was one more thing Vanessa could do from the tackle that is broken with P+K... Am I wrong???

 

Its specific to what she is doing. If 2g fails to block or push her off rather, then you must restart the attempts. Being the player can mix up the set, such as punch, punch, throw; or just a throw. Against a good Van simply holding one of those will not get you the win on the guessing game.

 

is 2G just low gaurd. And auvil can u go a little further on that about restart. Can i do multiple blocks after tackled (i.e. like multiple ETEG).

 

P+K isnt a break from vane's tackle, it's the command for one of her attacks,

2g isnt really low guard when she's mounted on you, it's the break for the gut punches.

By restart i think Auvii means if you guess wrong on the first hit (she pushed P but you pushed 2G), you still can / should guess again for the second or third hits.

You cannot do multiple breaks for a single hit as far as I know, it's a 3-way guess.

 

Yeah exactly what KoD said.

If you guess Van is going to punch on the first strike and you throw out that G then your going to stop it and throw her off. however if she uses 2p and you use G then its going to fail and you will be hit.

If the hit does occur then the guessing game starts over.

I believe G, 2g, and PG are the only three commands to know when she tackles you. Correct me if im wrong.

 

Holding the button just negates having to time it exactly with the hit. I thought having to guess the right escape was fairly fucking obvious.

 

Not sure if I somehow came off offensive with my last statement or what, but you seem rather agitated by it...


What may seem "fucking obvious" to you may not seem that way to others, especially the OP. I felt it was necessary to avoid being vague for that exact reason. Personally I was unaware for some time of the fact that each attack after the first ,on a take down, were separate. The less experienced players always use the same punch sequence and after holding G this allowed me to escape nearly every time. In the later tiers i discovered that there were more attacks available and required different escapes besides simply holding G.

I took this in to account when addressing the take down escape topic.

 

Not sure if this helps, but lei fei's sleeper position nullifies most of vanessa's long range kicks... really the only thing she has left is the vertical spinning kick thing... but really you have better range with p from that position than she does with that kick, plus its faster... so really, if vanessa tries to go long range just drop in to sleeper, wait for the wiff or till she gets in range of p, then stomp her face. Thats what I do, and typically, after a round or two... turtle vanessas magically turn their mike on and complain or they disconnect.

See: every vanessa ranked over 3rd dan, except for Black lac x, and maybe a couple that I've never played against before. But probably not.

 

Wow, so speaking of turtle vanessas... There was one on today that kept playing me, so I have some more insight on this type of player.

#1) they typically are SUPER overrated for their skill level, meaning 8th dan rank will give you a player thats about 3rd or 4th dan skill level.

#2) this means that if you can take them out of their element, they're boned because they're a one trick wonder. So if you can, rush their face in. Ideally you'd like to be close enough that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif will land. The closer the better.

#3) At super close range, their game deteriorates into low punches, that stupid sabaki elbow (which sabakis low and high punches), high punches, and throws... thats pretty much all they do. Evading, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, etc will do you very well. Don't try to out low punch em, they'll just do the sabaki and bam, next thing you know you're on the ground, they walk away, and you gotta work on closing the gap again.

#4) They're *TERRIBLE* at actual game understanding, specifically lei fei's stances and moves. So once you close that gap, classics that usually don't work on higher ranked people will work on them consistently. For example: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif then float, the sabakis from koko, stagger combos, everything works. Just pull out every trick you have in the book for the largest damage combos, it'll ALL land. Pull out okizemes as well, cause they're gonna rise with kicks EVERY time. Alternatively, wait for the kick to wiff, then before they recover from that, commence with the face pounding again.

#5) another thing you can do, is beat them at their own game... learn the range of vanessas kicks, what they look like, and how close the guy wants you to be before he throws one out there...
then dash into that range, dash back out, and when he wiffs, use the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif from hai shiki then BAM you're in his face again ready to rumble.

#6) watch for ringouts... im not saying ringout is always a cheap way to win, but these guys use it as one of their main winning strategies... theyll camp right near the edge, and do throws specifically designed to ring you out. get a little more damage than they have on you, and camp out in the middle of the ring, theyll come to you, don't worry. If they have more health tho, theyll just wait for a time up. Thats the type of people they are.