Lion: Final Tuned

Thanks for the info Noodals and Myke. His stumble throw seems useless /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif
What about lion being able to roar elbows now ?

 

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Jide said:

Thanks for the info Noodals and Myke. His stumble throw seems useless /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif
What about lion being able to roar elbows now ?

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I like his stumble throw quite a lot. I use it when I have the opponent on the defensive -- I'll do the throw then usually crouch dash in and do it again or one of his many useful attacks. It definitely a mind game throw because nothing is guarranteed but it's fun to use.


kbcat

 

does his new stance and the , followup from there have some sabaki type properties. i could have sworn i saw lion going through some attacks when he used the first from that stance in one vid i saw.

also regarding his stumble throw, doesn't that give something guaranteed afterwards??

 

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DanniBoySmith said:

does his new stance and the , followup from there have some sabaki type properties. i could have sworn i saw lion going through some attacks when he used the first from that stance in one vid i saw.

also regarding his stumble throw, doesn't that give something guaranteed afterwards??

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I think Lion's "dance" itself might have high P sabaki properties, if not then is it the first P of the PP as you noted. I hope it's the dance though because the minimum dance time is pretty long. Someone with a mook can clarify this though.

As far as I can tell with the new throw nothing is guarranteed if the opponent struggles even a bit. So, it's all mind games.


kbcat

 

<font color="white"> Lion Rafale </font>

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<font color="white">Overview</font>

Lion possesses long range attacks that can connect at a long distance, full circular low attacks that cause downs, and attacks that shift him off axis, these are the advantages that Lion has over other characters. This time around, Lion is not able to cause any considerable damage by only using his average attacks. Lion is now a character that can take advantage of the opponent’s pressure. By baiting the opponent to attack, Lion now possess the moves that will avoid the opponent’s attacks and punish the openings that results from the exchange, and with the new moves given to Lion in Final Tuned, he is even more able to do the above. Overall, Lion’s damage has been decreased, this time his move list has much more variety, and his fight style is trickier than before.

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<font color="white">Change moves</font>


A1 Kousyuteishitsu ~ kanbo


An elbow class execution knee attack. The property of this move is changed a bit from Evo, on large counter, Lion is at large advantage. Furthermore, you can now go into his new kanbo movement for more attack variations.

A2 Kousyuteishitsu


A knee attack that can float the opponent on normal hit. Even though this move executes a bit slower than most knee attacks, the advantage of this move is that it can avoid most low attacks. On guard, it is mid counterable, so this makes the move a rather average floater.

B1 Niinyou


The special property of this move is that the first hit is capable of avoiding high attack, so it’s a good move both for attacking and defending. Both the first and second hit have rather small recovery on guard, further more the second hit is guaranteed if the first one hits.

B2 Tenshintourourenkyaku


3 mid hits string attack. Although the damage is rather small, you can stop the string after the second hit to set up your offense. Also, the first hit is half circular that must be evaded to his stomach, so it’s important for Lion since most of his key circular moves can be dodged to his back. The last kick on guard is elbow counterable.

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<font color="white">New Moves and Key Changes</font>

– This move no longer causes stomach crumple on normal hit, instead it causes a normal down. In open stance against Vanessa, you can combo with +.

– Although the damage of the move itself has been decreased, you can still get high damage combos if it hits on counter. One other thing that has been affected is that on normal hit against the wall, you no longer cause a wall stagger.

– The first hit is a special high with the speed of a middle kick class attack, and it is a half circular attack that much be avoided to Lion’s stomach. On hit, the second hit is guaranteed, or you can go into his new kanbo movement. On large counter, you can follow it up with .

– New special movement that allows you to further attack from.

– The damage and float for this move has both been lowered. You can no longer hit the second kick on normal hit, so this move now requires a lot of work to be effective.

(kanbo) – The first hit is a mid attack that can sabaki high and mid elbows and leaves lion back turned. The second hit is a high attack that will leave Lion at +2 on guard.

(kanbo) – On counter hit it will cause a crumple which you can follow with + combo. On guard the disadvantage is rather small.

+ – A mid attack that has the ability to avoid high attacks. It is uncounterable on guard, causes stagger on a crouched opponent, and stomach crumples on counter hit.

++ – A special movement similar to Wolf’s R.A.W. This move will cancel out any high, mid or elbow. Because the result of the move on a successful hit is dependent on the timing of the move and what kind of attack the opponent used, the chance for a guaranteed follow up attack is rather few. This move will not work against attacks that cause a down on normal hit.

++ – This is the low version of the ++ move, it will work against low or . Again, it will not work against moves that cause a down on normal hit, and since it is a low move, it will avoid high attacks.

++ or ++ (When successful) or – Moves Lion to the side of the opponent. Since the movement takes time to execute, Lion is often at a disadvantage after this move. It should only be used against strings of attacks.

or ++ – You can no longer use this move to turn yourself around, however, you can now specify the direction of the move by the command.

+ – The throw itself causes only a small amount of damage, but it will cause a stagger on the opponent, which you can force an attack/throw nitaku game.


+ – The damage for the throw itself has been lowered, but the combo potential remains the same as before.

Other notes: Because of the system changes, is not as effective to an opponent’s back, this means that + should now be followed with either + or . Other moves such as , , now have their damage lowered as well.

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<font color="white">Execution Frames for Key Moves</font>

12
+ 12
14
(A1) 14
15
15
(B1) 16
16
16
16
17
(A2) 18
+ 18
+ 20
+ 20


Source: Virtua Fighter 4 Final Tuned Master Guide

 

Just my 2 cents worth on the change to

It sucks -- I thought it was weak enough as it was, not guarranting to connect even on Sabaki. Now, even though it hits, it doesn't alwys crumble, but is still painfully slow.

Same can be said for Lei Fei's +, although this probably needed some toning down.

 

Yeah on paper lions sabaki looks strong but practically it's quite weak especially against experienced players. Personally why Am2 had to change it is beyond me. Maybe the counter window frame is larger but it hasn't been stated. But his new elbow Raw and low reversal is what he really needed /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

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Jide said:

Yeah on paper lions sabaki looks strong but practically it's quite weak especially against experienced players. Personally why Am2 had to change it is beyond me. Maybe the counter window frame is larger but it hasn't been stated. But his new elbow Raw and low reversal is what he really needed /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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The sabaki window doesn't seem any bigger. Now I just use it as an "uber yomi" tool -- especially in the tech roll game (when I'm rolling) and I expect a knee, swallow kicks, or something similar from my opponent. You can still nail b,f+P+KPP but you have to be on the ball to do so, and I just keep forgetting -- I still expect the kazure.

It's beyond me why sega took away the second strike between Plain 4 and EVO, let alone the recent changes.


kbcat

 

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Srider said:

<font color="white"> Lion Rafale </font>

+ – The throw itself causes only a small amount of damage, but it will cause a stagger on the opponent, which you can force an attack/throw nitaku game.


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1/60th has finally gotten around to working out the stats for this throw. The stagger is strugglable and at maximum struggle Lion has +12 frames on the opponent. However, with no struggling Lion has +27! So if you don't have any opponent that struggles very well feel free to keep hammering them with + till the cows come home -- or they get better at struggling /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif


kbcat

 

Lion Combo Maniacs
Source - Orange Mook
Writer - Ohsu
Translation - Noodalls

counter hit or (A2)
1. buffer+ +
2. buffer + (A1)
3. +
4. + +
5. +
6.

When hits on counter hit, in closed stance combo 2 (up to middle weights) and in open stance 1 (light weights, Lei, Kage, Akira if you stop on the second hit.) are the basic combos. Against heavy weights, go for combo 3 in closed stance and combo 4 in open stance.
The float after the (A2) is low, so combos are harder to get compared to . Even on counter hit, combos are limited to + + in closed stance and 3 in open stance. On normal hit if in closed stance 5 is guaranteed, but in open stance there are a limited number of moves that will connect. Depending on the character, you'll have to make do with combo 6.


7. Buffer +
8. Buffer + +
9. Buffer + +

, above being a move that "baskdashes to avoid the opponent's move, and then hits them during their recovery" is also a main move for starting combos on normal hit. In closed stance 8, in open stance 7 will connect as the basics (input with the lever neutral). Up to Kage size combo 7 will still in closed stance, so try to judge it as quickly as possible.
Combo 9 in open stance is for focussing on okizeme. For opponent's that don't tech roll you can automtically apply a nitaku with a large down pounce.

counter hit or successful sabaki or or + counter hit
10. + +
11.
12. +

After any of the stomach crumples, 11 is guaranteed, or 12 in open stance. Or, if you delay the + slightly it will refloat them and allow it to hit in closed stance. It gives a lot better damage than and allows you to speedily transfer into okizeme, so there is value in going for it. 10 is a character limited combo (Closed stance Light and middle weights other than Aoi, Vanessa, Shun. Open stance light weights and Lion) giving the best damage.

~ when sabakis and whiffs
13. 1frame penalty +
14. +
15. 1frame penalty
16. +

Combos 13-16 are for when sabakis and the follow up connects, or when whiffs and the connects. 31 is for Shun, Jacky and Lei, 14 is for Sarah, Vanessa, 125 is for Akira and 16 is for Wolf. Also, you can turn around from the and get a guaranteed throw.

+
17.
18. buffer+
19. buffer+
20.
21. +

From +, checking foot stance is incredibly important. Firstly, in closed stance against all chracters will connect. In open stance, 21 will connect against most characters. If you want to improve the damage, in closed stance 17 will work on all characters. In open stance, against light weight characters buffer+ will connect, on Akira combo 19, on Goh, Kage, Brad, Lau and Jacky 18 and on the other characters 20.

+
22.
23.
24. +
25.
26. +
27.

After + combo 27 is guaranteed on everyone (it's a little unreliable on heavy weights) and does okay damage, but people with confidence in their command input will want to go for the difficult high damage combos.
24 works on light weights and Lau. The difficulty is at the lower end of the scale, and if you can just get your dash to timing right then it's reliable. 22 is the best combo that you can land on Kage and Lei Fei, but the timing for the is very strict. When there is a large difference in life, and when the conditions are met is the realistic time to go for it. 23 is just for Brad, and although it's a little easier than 22 it's still highly difficult. It carries them a long distance, so it's good to go for at the ring's edge. 25 is possible on Jacky and Akira. It gives better damage than and goes into okizeme easily, so it's a combo that you should use in real fights. 26 is Wolf only, and the trick is you need to backdash slightly before entering the combo. The damage is high and it moves into okizeme easily.

+
28.
29. buffer+

The basic combo from + is 28, but this won't work in closed stance on Aoi and Pai, so in this instance use 29 instead.

or+++ counter hit
30. +
31. +

Combo 30 is for closed stance where you move to the opponent's stomach side, 31 is for when you move to your opponent's back. can be avoided by techrolling, but even if it is the whiff isn't long so you can still go for ukemizeme, so use it in any case.

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.5 left.