Lion combos and general strats.....

Well, hi first; I am new to this board and also quite new to this game, so go easy on me if I write BS /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

Here is what I already know and use with Lion, advises (like this is good or better dont use this) are apprechiated....

K, general poke I use would be , surely not always all three....are all 3 guarantied when first is CH???
(I guess first staggers a crouching opponent, right??)

(then mostly follow with FC ++ or FC +

+ I use vs whiffs or on ducking opponents; follow with +, if I am fast or a simple ++, maybe follow with a pounce or go into oki-mixup like throw or another +.

I tend to use alot of + (), range is shit, but I always hope for sabaki....my friends still tend to run in the second when they block the first...



+ as primary juggle starter, follow with +, , for pretty good damage (any better juggles here??)
I also noticed that +, + recovers quite well on block, but they both hit high, so their duckable...but I still always buffer the + all the time, this way I am not backturned...

As follow for ++ I use ++ (right??), +, for some pretty hefty damage...I guess the low kick can be QRed....

K, this is it for now, any answer is greatly apprechiated
/versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

<font color="33ffff"> Among the coolest features here is the Search icon above. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif <font color="orange"> CreeD </font color> has many good Lion battles, as does <font color="brown"> FeixaQ </font color> Lion vs. Lei mpeg Both players in the above referenced battle have a stats that prove they are highly skilled. The brilliant use of Mantis Catch Throw to begin a combo, not a damage throw while not unique is very interesting! CreeD's ftp has numerous xaxk and MetalButter battles archived as well. They are both members of the <font color="white">NOMercy </font color> Club in Korea and are both unafraid to share Mantis strats that work. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif /versus/images/icons/cool.gif /versus/images/icons/smirk.gif /versus/images/icons/grin.gif oh, the url referenced above refers you to mpeg #12 for Lion vs. Lei /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif </font color> <font color="red"> +->->+->+->+->

 

Sounds like you have a nice, decent start with Lion. As for using ++... ++ is the most common (and a very good) followup, but the following + is a risky followup. The opponent CAN techroll when they are hit by ++.

... as far as I know, all three are guaranteed if opponent just gets hit normally from the first punch. Only rarely do I use these days, because I place my bets on bigger and better things beyond the regular punch or . But I will admit I used to use a lot and it's not completely gone from my repertoire.

+ and ++ are both quite risky and both are throw counterable (the first being back throw counterable, making it worse). Not many people apply this when they fight Lion, but I've seen some of the most obscure players having throw-counter hardwired into their system whenever they see that they are about to block a +. On their part, this is an excellent habit against Lion. The more reason Lion has to not use +, the worse it is for him.

-Chanchai

 

Well, thx first for the vids and the advises /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

Can anyone give me some other basic strats/setups with him??
guarantied on normal hit...nice; does backturned also, cus that does quite some damage; and do you have advantage after those moves connect?? I mostly buffer a throw or go for a mid afterwards, but my friends are also just starting, so I dont know if a good player would punish it...

K, I´ll use + only for whiff punishing now, as I ate quite some backthrows from my friend..... /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif

Ah yeah, are there any moves that set-up his backturned stance well?? And what moves from BK are useful (I guess + is, as its fast a low, but dunno some decent mid), can you backturned throw in VF??
Only played Tekken before, heh...

 

K, I´ll bump this one again and ask some more questions....

After watching some vids I am curious...
Someone did:
+, + (I think it was that one, not a regular punch), , ....
I have no trouble getting the jab in, but the kicks always whiff, no matter if I buffer them or whatever....any advises on that combo?? Does it only work on certain chars, or what, help plz...as this would be the most damaging option after + I found....

Oh yeah and for the fact that some orger Lion starters look in here, some other combos I found and use:
+, +, +, ++

+, can be used after almost any starter, it starts very low any is easy to time....
So after +; +; +(CH); ++ it connects easily....
Others:
CH +, ++, ,

well, contribute people, or is this forum dead??

 

I wouldn't say the forum is dead. Lion has been discussed quite a bit, and there is Ice-9's excellent Lion Dojo. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find quite a bit of Lion stuff. I did.

 

Ah well I read all those stuff, still there is alot of stuff not discussed there, like how to punish quickrolls, better juggles than standard ones,....

K, for peeps who QR I use f+K+G or d/f+K+G; both track very well, dunno if they guarantied (but I think they are if you time them right). So you have a nice guessing game between pounce, qr punisher above, or run up throw them...

well any other tips are apprechiated, still hope for some...

 

+ is nice as well -- doesn't take as long to wind up as + if I'm not mistaken.

 

I'm a big fan of +, then

 

Hey, Chanchai. It's out of question to do after +. If you want to know some combos, I can tell you some for the follow-ups. Admayukiwas using some of these when he started to use Lion.
After +, you can do
-> + -> against Sarah
->() against Pai
+ -> against Kage, Lau, Lei
-> + -> against Shun

If Shun does not tech-roll, then, you can do after the combo. Also, in order to do after the throw, you may want to a bit.

There are many combos like this after + as well, different for each characters, and takes more than just .

 

That's a good one, but the is a bit predictable. If you use it enough with variations, it's quite affective. Try the or even + to fake the guys out. Or don't follow up at all. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Also is not throw-counterable at all!! If you post something for a beginner, I would like you to do some research before posting anything, or at least you could add, "...I think" etc. Otherwise, it will bring more confusion!!

is useful in several situations. Since it comes out as fast as elbows (15 frames,) you can sometimes use it for guaranteed situations. (The same thing is true for as well. Say, when you defend Akira's +, Lion's is guaranteed.) Also, when you have distance and also have slight disadvantage so that the opponent may want to attack (e.g. after is defended) Then, you can do . Then, Lion will step back a bit and does the kick. In this case, he can avoid elbows, knees, and throws, and thus, you do not worry about guessing right. (Of course, this will bring up another guessing game.)

Well, honestly, I don't care even if anything incorrect is mentioned, but since I happened to see it, I will correct it.

Hiro

 

When + is defended, back throws are guaranteed. So don't use it too much against people who know it. In Japan, I had easy time against Lions who used that move since his back throw and almost guaranteed down attack takes a lot.

 

only hits in one stance. For example, you can do ->+-> only in an open stance.

After +, there are several combos in which Lion does .

Against Sarah, Lion, Aoi, Lei
+->-> (Closed)
+->-> (Open)

Against Pai
+->+->
same as above for open stance

Against Shun, Vanessa
+->+-> (Closed)
+->-> (open)

Against Lau, Kage, Jacky
+->-> (Closed)
+->->+-> (Open)

Against Akira
+->->(closed)
+->->+-> (open)

Against Wold, Jeff
+->->
+->

Well, if these combos are too tough to do against different characters, you should just do which still requires some quick reaction after +. I would recommend people to worry about how to think and guess than worry about these combos. Many people who only worry about fancy stuff end up having no chance to use them since they don't know how to think.

 

Hiro:
So after +, the get a throw (not a low throw)? Not sure about this one... if so, then not many people know it... then again, I don't use the attack so much as I get blocked, and then a shoulder or something.

I always thought this left Lion in a crouched position if there was no follow up , which would mean the back throw is in fact not guaranteed.

 

Hi, GP. I know what you mean; no one really uses it often, and thus we don't get to learn what to do after defending it. Although he looks crouching, he is standing. So, just press P+G. Well, I guess that's the reason why people don't use it. And as a result, people didn't learn that it was throw-counterable, unless they learned it from some frame chart and tried it. I'm the latter. I saw many Lion players in Osaka and that's the reason.
One time, I was playing against Kakuto-Ai. (He is in Kansai-Sannoukai Team, which was in the 2nd place in the beat-tribe cup in May.) He wasn't using his main character Aoi, and he was using Lion. We both had the same rank, 7th dan? We were playing against each other so many times, maybe 20-30 games until I got luckily promoted. Although his Aoi was one of the best Aois in Japan, it was not as good as I thought he would be. Just manageable. (Just because I played so many Lions and Aois in Osaka.) Of course, I got defeated badly by his friend's Lau... (One thing I envy about you, GP, is that you are in a team. I didn't have a cell phone in Japan so I couldn't register and also, I was there only for half a year and didn't belong to any team...)

Anyway, please take care of Jeff the Baby!!

 

I'll be taking care of the baby.

The guys on my team are quite good, and generally only care about having fun. Our 'leader' as VF.net calls them, has a pretty mean Lei Fei, but not the best -- he's also really good with about 5 other characters. There's another guy in our team (Kiba Ichozoku) that perhaps Ice will explain -- he's amazing. Watching his hands is unreal, b/c his body & face never change during a match... nor his arms -- just the fingers. Hmm...

I know about those 20-30 match fights until someone goes up. They're a pain, and generally SUCKS if you wind up getting demoted. I did one with another team mate several months ago. I wound up getting my Aoi & Lion up a dan, and my Vanessa down a dan (even though she was like 4-dan +4 --- I lost 9 freakin' times!!!) Hehe.

Anyways, that's all over in about 2 weeks, so there's a lot of same dan-level matches going on. Nobody's worried about losing rank as everyone will here soon.

Speaking of good fights though, how's this for a record yesterday w/ my 8-dan Aoi.

Lion (Ken-ou) - this guy had some WICKED moves. Some stuff I've never seen Chibita use
Jacky (9-dan)
Lau (Ken-jin) -- 5000+ wins, and like 1100 losses or something -- had quite a few "sugoi!"s when I beat him.
Akira (9-dan)
Jacky (9-dan) same as before
Akira (9-dan) same as before
Aoi (2-dan) and freakin lost here!!! A bit embarrasing. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

What are the MOST damaging combos starting from ?

as a 'minor' counter, in my experience

,+,

seems to hit nearly everybody in open stance - this seems to provide the meatiest damage unless anyone else out there can suggest something more damaging.

against closed stance, I have found after the initial ,+, against most characters, if you are fast enough, you can tag on another . What to do after that to get the most damage I am still unsure.

It seems against the heavies, Akira, Jeff and Wolf, you might be able to follow up with a K (I know this hits high) as they hit the floor?!! Against the others, seems to work.

Anyone have anyother ideas?

 

I believe the most damaging combo (only works on light & mid-weight opponents) is
+++

Not 100% sure, but that's what I generally do.

 

b,b+K combo

b,b+K -> P+K -> b,f+P+K -> b,f+P+KPP is a good one, but the last P often does not hit. Especially, against Akira and heavies, it never hits. (Except for Jeff in closed stance with a counter.) For others, without a counter, it does not hit in many situations. So, in this case, b,b+K -> P+K -> b,f+P+KPP takes more.

b,b+K -> P+K -> KK This takes more than the combo above and it is easier. Against light weight, Vanessa, and Kage, it works in both stances with or without a counter. For others, it works only in open stance without a counter. With a counter, this works against everyone in both stances except for Wolf and Jeff.

b,b+K -> P+K -> d/f+PP -> d/f+P This is the one I use against light weight and this takes more than the ones above. (I never tested exactly against whom this works.) When you do d/f+PP, you have to be holding d/f in advance. Otherwise, his down attack (d/f+P) comes out. I suppose if d/f+PP hits the opponent at low position in the air, he can tech-roll. In case of a counter hit, you can put an extra P in front of d/f+PP. Also, b,b+K -> P+K -> b,b+K -> P+K works and takes more than the first one, and you can do Okizeme with Lion facing back, which could be tricky to the opponent. Facing back and doing ARMS lets Lion dodge many moves.

b,b+K is used in other combos as well. One is D,f+P -> b,b+K -> P+K -> f+K except for heavies in both stance. For heavies in closed stance only. Well, against heavies, you can do D,f+P -> P -> d+KK+G, which is easier and not stance-dependent. (This is good also because the last kick makes the opp fly spinning, and if he misses tech-rolling, do d/f+P.)

Sorry for not using arrows and PKG marks.